Why does the UK have 16-17 year olds on adult wards?

[Dodgeitornot]

Just that. I've always been confused by it. As far as I know, most countries in Europe, or even the world, keep patients in pediatrics until they turn 18 or even 21. Why does the UK move them to adult wards so early? Isn't this a safeguarding risk?

I also don't really understand the relevance. Fully grown women in their 30s want their partners with them when on gynae wards. I don't see how a 16 year old wanting a parent with them is weird, whether they're a genius in medical school or not.

As long as the adult wards are single sex I think it's fine. I wouldn't want a 16 year old girl on a ward with adult men for obvious reasons. But single sex wards, I think it's fine.

Someone up thread said 16yos can be doing the medical degree so shouldn't be on children's wards.
The answer is they can't be doing the medical degree the youngest would be 17.

If you really mean post natal wards, they are the only wards in a hospital where a patient recovering from major surgery is expected to look after another patient.
Postnatal wards should be staffed accordingly. Partners should not be plugging gaps in care provided to patients on any ward.

Well yes, but that doesn't happen. I also don't just mean post natal wards. Either way, I don't have a problem with adult wards if it's a single sex one where the parent can stay if they need to or want to. Especially if they get a separate room. From my understanding separate rooms were mostly for those on end of life care or waiting transfer to more acute wards.

I must be lucky as I have spent a long time in hospital and have never been on a mixed ward (last in there Sunday) That's in south east and London. Always at least separate bays.

What has struck me is that whatever your age when you are sick, delusional, psychotic, feverish, confused or whatever your issue it is wise and sensible that someone can advocate for you and be there to fight your corner. No one likes to be ill alone. The nhs is in crisis.... never more evident than at the weekend when I slept overnight in a chair as I needed IV antibiotics (along with numerous other people) and there was ONE nurse. I waited 18 hours for fluid/ antibiotics, no pain relief and a&e in chaos.

Common sense needs to be prevail. In China you would be encouraged to be with your relative, to feed and comfort them. To nurse them back to health. We seem to lack in every area.

My 16 year old was in a ward of younger children and he hated it

Are you mixing up England and the UK? In parts of the UK you can vote and get married at 16, drive a car, have a job, be a tenant etc.

i do wish there were adolescent wards though. I was in an adult ward in the 80s at 13 years old and didn’t like it much.

Where can you drive a car at 16?

Btw I left school at 16 ready for uni - I didn’t do medcine, but inspired by this thread I checked the latest ages - Glasgow, no minim age, Hull, 17 or over by tht October of the year you join, ICL 18.

so while I get the point most sick teens want their parents with them, and that’s easier on a paed ward, realistically 16 is adult in many senses. And you say would you want your teen in with adults? Maybe not, but I probably wouldn’t want my toddler in with a 17 year old either

Sorry, my mistake in not qualifying that @Sugarfree23 , I meant to. You can drive a car in the UK at 16 and pass a test if you have certain disabilities and get higher rate DLA.

16 is not an adult. At all. Pretty much the only thing that changes between 15 and 16 is the fact you're now at the age of consent for sex. If you go to uni at 16, you will need stuff signed by your parents. Because you're not an adult. Your parents can get prosecuted if you're not in education or if they take you on a term time holiday. They're still responsible for you in many ways.

I was going to say, that's literally only possible if you have a certain level of mobility for DLA.

My point was that you are choosing to use medical intervention as a clear cut case of adulthood/childhood divide.

I was pointing out that there are many areas of society where 16 is the cut off point.

oh, and my DD had major surgery as 10 years old - doctors asked her for consent re pain relief, not me, and went with her opinions. Medics also view young people as having capacity beyond their parents control in many ways.

ps to repeat, I wish there were adolescent wards, for the best of both worlds.

and I wish there were no mixed sex wards at all.

16 is a funny age though ,no.the are not adults but they are not really children either ,my son now has a lot of medical appointments because amongst other things he also now has Diabetes I' go with him but I'm having to step back and let him,talk

When I was 16 I would have rather been with adults than 3 year olds

It's by the by but a 16 year old could have attained highers and leave if they started school at 4. I think it would be less likely in medicine where most would stay on to do advanced highers but interestingly there is special rules in place for student nurses age 16-18. They aren't supposed to do 12h shifts or nightshifts.

Also mixed bays are supposed to be in exceptional circumstances in general wards. Can be done in assessment bays or critical care where there is a nurse there 24/7. However similar to patients being nursed in corridors these things sadly become the norm in times of extreme bed pressures. Wards are split by speciality rather than a female/male ward so mixed wards are entirely appropriate. I think it becomes cultural though because there are a lot of sisters who would hit the roof if they came in in the morning to a mixed bay and get it sorted, it should absolutely not be an accepted practice.

15/16/17 year olds are not in need of paediatric care, but they may also find it overwhelming being on a ward potentially with elderly people and young females particularly being with men.

How do you know? DD was under the paediatric consultant neurologist at our local hospital and two at GOSH until she was 18. She was also admitted for surgery at GOSH at 17y 4m. Are you saying GOSH don’t know what they are doing?

I meant consultant paediatric neurologist!

A 16 year old in year 11 isn't allowed to work past 7pm, or more than 2 hours on a Sunday.

I guess it's a case by case basis
My 16'year old has never had any medical issues until he collapsed in February with acute pancreatitis that was necrotic
He was admitted to the adult critical care ward,and tbf,he looks like an adult all the staff were saying e looked about 25 he has a full beard and a hairy chest etc,so it made sense from a health point of view to admit I'm to adult care
On 'the,other hand my 13 year old has complex disabilities and had always had a paediatrician should God forbid,he needed admitting to hospital at 15/16 I guess he would be treated on the children's ward

The trans movement will have no bearing on your child being safe or not. Predators don't care about 'movements' or 'sexuality' or any type of right. Removing individual rights is the issue

I'm talking about mixed sex wards. The trans movement does have a bearing on that as it complicates the issue and makes it easier to just have more mixed sex wards.

16 & 17 year olds are more adult than child. It's a tough decision as no doubt some of them do feel uncomfortable on adult wards, especially overnight, But given that there are adult wards and child wards, and no teen wards, adult wards are the most appropriate place for them to be.

I guess it's a case by case basis

DD was at two epilepsy schools, where all the students were under visiting GOSH consultants; then at a FE college where the students were under visiting GOSH consultants up to age 22.

As I said it's a case by case basis ,my youngest son is at a special school for children with severe and profound learning disabilities,he has always had a paediatrician as do most children in his school.as many have complex medical needs ,he's 13 I would expect him to be treated on a children's ward at least up.to 16 May be 18,as he's very vulnerable and lacts capacity
however when my 16 year old was admitted recently ,he was admitted to.an adult critical care ward,because physically at least he's an adult ,but 16-18 is a strange age .