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Ukraine Invasion: Part 40

994 replies

MagicFox · 13/05/2023 15:17

40 threads, still here πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

OP posts:
Thread gallery
221
BringBackCoffeeCreams · 17/05/2023 21:03

notimagain · 17/05/2023 08:20

In the context of the thread is it just perhaps worth emphasising that the Porton Down trials were very much, very specifically, Chemical Warfare research related, nothing to do with Depleted Uranium.

DH says that uranium is classed as a chemical issue rather than a radiation issue.

minsmum · 17/05/2023 21:14

https://twitter.com/SlavaUk30722777/status/1658814180605198336 Can I go home now, documentary shown in Cannes. Only children speaking, giving their thoughts on the war

https://twitter.com/SlavaUk30722777/status/1658814180605198336

Surplus2requirements · 17/05/2023 21:36

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 17/05/2023 21:03

DH says that uranium is classed as a chemical issue rather than a radiation issue.

The article posted was referring to research into nerve agents not DU

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 17/05/2023 21:46

Surplus2requirements · 17/05/2023 21:36

The article posted was referring to research into nerve agents not DU

I didn't read the article, I just showed him the comment I quoted. I couldn't face the hours of brain melt I'd have to endure otherwise. He's still chuntering on about naturally occuring uranium levels. I now know how much there is in my back garden, how many shells would need to drop on a small town to increase the level to that of my garden, the levels in his uranium glass collection,. something about Mike the radiographer ... I'm losing the will to live.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 17/05/2023 21:55

lol oh dear @BringBackCoffeeCreams !

That first-ever-post full-of-inaccurate info poster hasn't been back.

They don't know what to do when faced with facts, do they!

Chatillon · 17/05/2023 23:28

Someone once wrote something like : β€œfacts are facts and they won’t just disappear because of your own wants”

I need to check out Thread 35 again. I think it’s that thread. RTB wrote several posts about the challenge not just today but at the beginning of the last century of knowing from what sources we obtain our facts.

Surplus2requirements · 18/05/2023 00:50

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar I am reminded of the Trumpian phrase 'alternative facts'.

I fear growing confirmation bias is an inherent weakness of liberal democracy that the likes of Russia will always seek to exploit.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/05/2023 07:50

Vyshyvanka Day today.

When my guest had to make a quick trip back home to Kyiv one of the things she brought back with her was the family’s vyshyvankas plus one for me.

There is lots of mythology around them. Since this is mainly a military thread I might mention they are supposed to have a protective effect to keep soldiers safe….

Vyshyvanka Day - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyshyvanka_Day

Greenshake · 18/05/2023 08:45

I think the Vyshyvanka and floral headpieces look beautiful

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/05/2023 09:26

Surplus2requirements · 18/05/2023 00:50

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar I am reminded of the Trumpian phrase 'alternative facts'.

I fear growing confirmation bias is an inherent weakness of liberal democracy that the likes of Russia will always seek to exploit.

It's very worrying isn't it. I keep being reminded through Trump being elected, through Brexit, through the anti-vax hysteria and through Russian propaganda about how bizarre beliefs would would sweep through societies in medieval times. I had thought the generality of society was more educated and grounded now ... seems not.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/05/2023 09:30

Seems a hardware depot got hit. 32 artillery systems down!

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/05/2023 10:55

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/05/2023 09:26

It's very worrying isn't it. I keep being reminded through Trump being elected, through Brexit, through the anti-vax hysteria and through Russian propaganda about how bizarre beliefs would would sweep through societies in medieval times. I had thought the generality of society was more educated and grounded now ... seems not.

There's a book from 1841 called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds about this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds

(I was seriously angry when the crothound Douglas Murray stole the second half of the title for his extraordinarily biased book not really on the same subject at all...)

When you think about it, the persecution of people because they were "witches" is very similar to all the guff about vaccinators being evil; some right-wing Americans even use Satan as the cause of their enemies not being like them. Evanjellybabies certainly do. And of course it is still "the Jews" who are the root of all evil for many misguided people, just as they were in 1400 and in 1935.

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/05/2023 12:22

I was thinking of the Witch Trials hysteria yes, and also the absolute beliefs in the Divine Right of Kings pushed by royalty and the genuinely-held views that men were inherently better than women and disease was caused by demons.

TheABC · 18/05/2023 12:37

I've always wondered why - even now - why Jews are such a popular target. If ideas are a kind of social virus, then anti-Semitism is the smallpox equivalent. It's depressing how quickly people can be taught to hate.

Mb76 · 18/05/2023 13:18

Happy Vyshyvanka Day!
I am wearing mine today and also doing a presentation (a virtual one, we are a remote team) about Vyshyvanka to my team this afternoon.

Mb76 · 18/05/2023 13:22

I’ve also started a Vyshyvanka motif cross stitch project. It’s tedious work and this has taken me about 12 hours so far (most of it was done during the wet coronation weekend on the sofa). At this rate it’ll probably take me 3 years to complete this. I intend to do roses as the main theme as this is what Donetsk region Vyshyvanka typically features.

i brought the thread and cloth from Ukraine over 20 years ago

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/05/2023 14:22

how lovely @Mb76 !

tiny, tiny stitches too.

Igotjelly · 18/05/2023 14:26

Mb76 · 18/05/2023 13:22

I’ve also started a Vyshyvanka motif cross stitch project. It’s tedious work and this has taken me about 12 hours so far (most of it was done during the wet coronation weekend on the sofa). At this rate it’ll probably take me 3 years to complete this. I intend to do roses as the main theme as this is what Donetsk region Vyshyvanka typically features.

i brought the thread and cloth from Ukraine over 20 years ago

A complete aside but I have your yellow pillow Mb76 πŸ˜‚

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/05/2023 14:28

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-17-2023

Key Takeaways

  • Russian and Ukrainian officials acknowledged continued limited Ukrainian counterattacks near Bakhmut on May 17.
  • Ukrainian officials reported that terrain features constrain Ukrainian offensive operations across the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast.
  • US officials reported that a Patriot air defense system is operational after Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian missile strikes on Kyiv destroyed the system on May 16.
  • The Kremlin reportedly accused three hypersonic missile scientists of treason.
  • The Kremlin reportedly accused three hypersonic missile scientists of treason.
  • Select Russian strongmen (siloviki) are likely attempting to signal to Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin that he must cease his political ambitions in Russia.
  • The Russian siloviki may be intimidating Russian officials affiliated with Prigozhin to discourage their cooperation with Wagner but appear to be unsuccessful in their attempts to scare Prigozhin into obedience.
  • Russian authorities continue to crack down against domestic anti-war dissent in an effort to strengthen domestic repressions and prepare Russian society for a long-term war effort.
  • Russian authorities are likely forcefully integrating Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) dioceses in occupied Zaporizhia Oblast as part of a wider religious persecution campaign in occupied Ukraine.
  • Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks northeast of Kupyansk and along the Svatove-Kreminna line.
  • Russian forces continued to make incremental gains in Bakhmut and conducted limited ground attacks on the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line.
  • Russian forces continued to target west (right) bank Kherson Oblast and islands at the Dnipro River delta out of fear of planned Ukrainian counteroffensives.
  • The Kremlin continues crypto-mobilization efforts by recruiting regional volunteer battalions and criminals.
  • The Russian State Duma adopted amendments to the martial law on May 16 that authorize the forced and controlled movement of citizens from territories under the martial law to the territories without marital law.
  • Russian ultranationalists are speculating about the fate of Belarus’ independence in case of Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko’s severe illness or death.
Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/05/2023 14:34

Kyiv Independent Telegram

⚑️Erdogan: Grain deal extended (https://kyivindependent.com/erdogan-grain-deal-extended-for-2-more-months/) for 2 more months.
The Black Sea Grain Initiative, allowing Ukraine to continue exporting its grain amid Russia's full-scale war, has been extended for 60 more days, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on May 17.

⚑️Russian attack on Kherson Oblast kills 3 (https://kyivindependent.com/russian-attack-on-kherson-oblast-kills-3-including-child/), including 5 year old child.

⚑️Wallace: UK can enable (https://kyivindependent.com/wallace-uk-can-enable-other-countries-to-send-ukraine-fighter-jets-but-its-own-role-is-limited/) other countries to send Ukraine fighter jets, but its own role is 'limited.'
The U.K. can assist nations that wish to provide Ukraine with fighter jets, but its own role is "limited," U.K. Defense Secretary Ben Wallace said on May 17, Sky News reported.
"What we can obviously contribute is training and support within limits because we don't have F-16 pilots," Wallace said at a joint press conference with his German counterpart Boris Pistorius.

Why Russia relies on private militaries, like Wagner, for its war effort | This Week in Ukraine Ep.7 ()

⚑️CNN: US inspectors examine Patriot system (https://kyivindependent.com/cnn-us-inspectors-examine-patriot-system-say-it-has-minimal-damage-following-russian-attack/), say it has 'minimal' damage following Russian attack.
A U.S.-made Patriot air defense system, allegedly hit by the Russian May 16 attack on Kyiv, has only 'minimal' damages and doesn't need to be shipped to the U.S. for repairs, CNN reported, citing three American officials.

⚑️French Senate passes (https://kyivindependent.com/french-senate-passes-recognition-of-holodomor-as-genocide/) recognition of Holodomor as genocide.

⚑️Chinese envoy visits (https://kyivindependent.com/chinese-envoy-visits-ukraine-meets-kuleba/) Ukraine, meets Kuleba.

β€˜Every time feels like your last (https://kyivindependent.com/every-time-feels-like-your-last-how-ukrainian-sappers-work-in-gray-zones-near-russian-occupied-kreminna/)’: How Ukrainian sappers work in gray zones near Russian-occupied Kreminna
Ukraine’s front-line sappers spend their days indoors waiting for their daunting nightly missions– venturing out into β€œgray zones” laying mines sometimes as close as 100 meters from the nearest Russian trench.

(https://kyivindependent.com/ukraines-air-defense-shoots-down-29-out-of-30-rockets-in-overnight-attacks/)
Ukraine's air defense successfully shot down 29 Russian missiles, two kamikaze drones, and two reconnaissance drones on May 17-18, according to the General Staff.

⚑️Ukraine commemorates anniversary of Crimean Tatars' forced deportation (https://kyivindependent.com/foreign-ministry-commemorates-anniversary-of-crimean-tatars-forced-deportation-genocide/), genocide.
The Ukrainian and Crimean Tatar flags were lowered at the Foreign Ministry on May 18 to commemorate the forced deportations carried out by the Soviets in 1944, Deputy Foreign Minister Emine Dzheppar reported.

⚑️Ambassador: One counteroffensive (https://kyivindependent.com/ambassador-one-counteroffensive-cannot-determine-course-of-entire-war/) cannot determine course of entire war.
Ukraine's Ambassador to NATO Natalia Halibarenko said that allies should have realistic expectations about the upcoming counteroffensive in an interview with Lithuanian media outlet LRT on May 18.

⚑️PM: Moldova no longer reliant on Russian gas (https://kyivindependent.com/pm-moldova-no-longer-reliant-on-russian-gas/).
Moldova has severed its dependence on Russian gas, Moldovan Prime Minister Dorin Recean reported at a security forum in Bucharest on May 18.

⚑️Top judicial body allows detention of ex-Supreme Court Head (https://kyivindependent.com/supreme-council-of-justice-votes-in-favor-of-ex-supreme-court-heads-detention/).
Supreme Council of Justice voted in favor of continuing the detention of now-former Supreme Court Head Vsevolod Kniaziev, the Anti-Corruption Center reported on May 18.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/05/2023 14:47

UNITED24 Media Telegram

❗️The Parliament of Estonia approved an application to support Ukraine's accession to NATO
It was also noted there that at the NATO summit in Vilnius on July 11-12, it is necessary to plan concrete steps regarding Ukraine's accession to the Alliance.

G7 will not agree to a comprehensive ban on the export of Western goods to Russia at the Hiroshima summit, β€” White House

The head of EU diplomacy, Josep Borrell, proposed to increase the fund of military aid to Ukraine by 3.5 billion euros, Reuters reports citing sources in the EU.

In September, the United States plan to announce the third aid package to Ukraine of $60 billion for 2024, β€” said the former special representative of the US State Department for Ukraine Kurt Volker.

A six-year-old girl whose parents defended Mariupol and were captured was returned to Ukraine from the Russian Federation.
After her release from captivity, the girl's mother appealed to the Commissioner's Office with a request to assist in the return of her daughter. Thanks to the cooperation of the Commissioners of Ukraine and the Russian Federation, the Secretariat of the Ukrainian Ombudsman employees managed to return the little Ukrainian girl home.

The Ukrainian taekwondo national team will skip the 2023 World Championship due to the application of athletes from Russia and Belarus to the tournament, β€” vice-president of the Taekwondo Federation of Ukraine Serhii Vasylchenko

πŸ‘ΉπŸš‚ And in occupied Crimea, they report an explosion on the railway near the village of Chystenke on a railway track, causing several cars to derail. The movement of electric trains on the Simferopolβ€”Sevastopol route is currently stopped.

Photos allegedly from the site of the explosion are also published online.
The information was confirmed by Aksyonov. It is known that 50 meters of the canvas, one and a half-meter funnel under the rails were damaged. Five wagons with grain derailed.

A group of 14 members of the US Congress sent a letter to the administration of President Joe Biden with a call to immediately unblock the supply of F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine, writes The New York Times.

The Russian Federation is preparing for "elections" in the occupied territory β€” the State Duma allowed them to be held "in regions under martial law."
"Changes are necessary to harmonize various legislative acts during the elections in the DPR, LPR, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions," said Pavel Krasheninnikov, co-author of the bill.

Up to 5,000 Ukrainian soldiers trained on Strv 122 tanks and CV90 BMPs in Sweden, β€” Expressen.
"The training took place before the Ukrainian counteroffensive, and the soldiers already returned to Ukraine at the beginning of May."

An X-ray of the bullet near his heart went around the world. The bullet passed through the left shoulder, the left lung literally millimeters from the heart and crushed the transverse process of the fifth thoracic vertebra. The former miner of Donbas has recovered and is fighting for Ukraine. Vitaly even left the operating room on his own two feet.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/05/2023 14:56

Live: Ukraine Telegram

Dutch Foreign Minister Wopke Hoekstra said that there is no progress in international negotiations on the possible supply of F-16 fighters to Ukraine.

China's special representative Li Hui visited Ukraine. The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry reported that his visit began on May 16. He met with Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba. They discussed cooperation between the countries and ways to stop Russian aggression.
πŸ“Hui emphasized the importance of China's participation in the implementation of the peace formula voiced by Volodymyr Zelensky and in ensuring nuclear safety.

Chinese Special Representative Li Hui met with President Zelensky in Ukraine and told him that there is no panacea for the "crisis," "but all parties need to start with themselves, build mutual trust and create conditions for ending the war and negotiations." [sorry, trust? how do you build trust with people who consistently break their word?]

Western allies worry that aid to Ukraine is nearing its peak, and that next year's US elections could cause problems - FT.
Washington sees the next 5 months as critical to determining how the war will end, and even as the last real chance for Ukraine to change the situation on the battlefield.
To avoid questions from American taxpayers, it is very important for the Biden administration to demonstrate that the huge aid to Ukraine has yielded significant results

πŸͺ–Ukrainian Armed Forces advance by 150-1,700 meters in Bakhmut area over 24 hours - spokesman for the Eastern Group of the Ukrainian Armed Forces

The White House could not answer the question whether Ukraine has launched the expected counteroffensive to liberate the territories seized by Russia.
"As you know, this is not like a D-Day landing on the beach (the Allied landings in Normandy in 1944). These types of combat operations are more dynamic, multilayered, multifaceted. Let the Ukrainians characterize and describe what they are doing," said Biden's National Security Advisor Sullivan.

MissConductUS · 18/05/2023 17:03

I haven't posted anything from the WSJ recently, and I thought this was worth sharing. The military term for this strategy is interdiction - disruption of the enemy's ability to supply itself and conduct operations before the start of an operation. There's an obvious focus on petroleum infrastructure. Russia, as a major oil producer, has plenty of petrol for its army, but they have to distribute it around the front, so oil products storage facilities are a high priority target. It's worth remembering that one factor in stopping the attempt to capture Kiev last year was that they ran out of diesel fuel for the tanks and infantry vehicles.

The Offensive Before the Offensive: Ukraine Strikes Behind Russian LinesKyiv aims to destroy ammunition, fuel and other supplies as it seeks to starve Russian forces in the field ahead of broader ground campaign

May 17, 2023 7:43 am ET

To set the stage, Ukraine has stepped up attacks on positions well inside Russian-held territory, part of what strategists call shaping operations, which are aimed at undermining the enemy and probing for gaps to exploit.

Ukraine staged similar attacks last year using U.S.-supplied Himars rocket systems before retaking territory in the Kharkiv region and the city of Kherson. Now it is reaching farther, using drones as well as newly supplied British long-range Storm Shadow cruise missiles.

For Ukraine, which is battling a larger military, the attacks are important to chip away at Russia’s battlefield resources.

Any engagement longer than a few days becomes a logistical contest, say commanders, so destroying stores of ammunition, fuel and spare parts can be more significant than taking out individual tanks or artillery pieces, because the impact can be broader. A tank without fuel or shells is of little use.

β€œThis is the preparatory stage,” said Oleksandr Kovalenko, an analyst at the Ukrainian Center for Security Studies. β€œIt is about destabilizing and weakening the capabilities of the enemy before the offensive.”

Recent blasts at Russian infrastructure [annotated map]

May 10
Druzhba pipeline in Sven
BELARUS

May 2
Train derailment in Belye Berega

May 11
Oil depot in Klintsy

May 1
Train derailment in
Unechsky District

Apr. 24 & 27
Oil depot in Rovenki

May 3
Oil storage reservoir in Volna

May 4 & 5
Oil refinery in Ilsky

Apr. 29
Fuel tank in Sevastopol
Black Sea

Moscow has blamed Kyiv for the recent spate of attacks targeting fuel storage and distribution networks on Russian soil and in occupied regions of Ukraine. Ukraine hasn’t claimed responsibility for the strikes.

In the most recent attack, a drone dropped explosives on a fuel depot in Russia’s Bryansk region, which borders Belarus and Ukraine, causing damage.

Days earlier, Russian state media said a fire broke out at the Ilsky oil refinery in the Krasnodar region after two days of drone attacks on the facility, which is almost 300 miles from the nearest Ukrainian-held area.

Russia said Ukraine used the Storm Shadow in strikes on the occupied eastern Luhansk region last week. Ukraine didn’t comment on the missile’s use.

β€œEvery time they have to pull depots back further, it limits the amount that can get to the front because it has to go further in trucks,” said Phillips O’Brien, professor of strategic studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland.

Recent attacks also include four on Russia’s fuel storage and distribution network on or near the occupied Crimean Peninsula. That fuel is used to power both Russia’s naval fleet at Sevastopol and its forces occupying parts of the southern Ukrainian regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, where analysts predict Kyiv may attempt a breakthrough.

Moscow, meanwhile, is seeking to disrupt Ukraine’s preparations for an offensive. Russian officials said this week they had killed Ukrainian soldiers and destroyed arms depots and Western military systems bound for the front line in missile strikes on the city of Ternopil, hundreds of miles behind the front. Ukraine said civilian buildingsβ€”not military targetsβ€”were hit.

Russian strikes on the Ukrainian city of Pavlohrad earlier this month hit railroad infrastructure and fuel and ammunition depots that Kyiv had been storing up for an offensive to retake occupied parts of Zaporizhzhia, said Russian-installed regional official Vladimir Rogov.

Ukraine’s recent attacks on Russia’s fuel storage and distribution network will likely force Moscow to adjust its military refueling operations, the U.K.’s Ministry of Defense said. That could include deploying additional protection measures at fuel-storage sites or relying on infrastructure in less threatened regions, it said.

Following an attack on an oil depot in Russia’s Bryansk region, Ukrainian former comedian and TV presenter Serhiy Prytula hinted it had been carried out using drones purchased through a crowdfunding initiative launched by his foundation.

Oleksandra Ustinova, a member of the Ukrainian parliament involved in defense issues, said hitting Russian supplies was critical to battlefield successes last year.
β€œWhen we first got Himars we hit their logisticsβ€”that is how we got Kherson back,” she said, noting that Russia then had to pull its supplies back more than 50 miles to keep them out of the mobile rocket-launchers’ range.

Extended-range drones and commandos operating in dangerous territories have allowed Ukraine to hit Russian equipment outside the range of Himars rocket systems. Now the addition of European long-range cruise missiles should allow Ukraine to strike even deeper and with greater impunity.

Britain said earlier this month it would give Ukraine an unspecified number of Storm Shadow cruise missiles, which are launched from jet fighters and have a range up to 150 miles and pack a bigger explosive punch than the rockets that Ukraine’s Himars fire.

β€œThis will cause a β€˜Himars effect’ on Russian logistics” at distances between 60 and 120 miles from the front line, said Trent Telenko, a former official at the Pentagon’s Defense Contract Management Agency who has studied Russian military logistics.

Ukrainian journalists have identified more than 220 Russian military targets beyond the reach of Kyiv’s Himars but within range of the cruise missiles, Telenko said. Their stockpiles include everything troops need, but especially artillery ammunition.

β€œAll of them are now at risk,” he said.

If Moscow is compelled to withdraw vital supplies more than 120 miles from the front, forces within that band will be inside what Telenko called a β€œsort of logistical desert” and be forced to rely on extended, vulnerable supply lines.
The Storm Shadow cruise missiles can also threaten Russian air and naval bases in occupied Crimea, potentially thwarting Russian efforts to disrupt Ukraine’s offensive, analysts said. As well as lengthening Kyiv’s reach, the missiles carry a far heavier explosive payload than drones can, allowing them to destroy bunkers and fortified targets.

The stealthy missiles also have advanced guidance and targeting systems that allow them to fly low and be routed around Russian air defenses, increasing their chance of hitting targets.

The Offensive Before the Offensive: Ukraine Strikes Behind Russian Lines

Kyiv aims to destroy ammunition, fuel and other supplies as it seeks to starve Russian forces in the field ahead of broader ground campaign.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-offensive-before-the-offensive-ukraine-strikes-behind-russian-lines-cea9320f?mod=Searchresults_pos8&page=1

MissConductUS · 18/05/2023 19:08

minsmum · 18/05/2023 18:54

As an American, all I can say is Slava Ukraini! πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

In addition to protecting our Ukrainian brothers and sisters, the Patriots show that everything Putin says is a lie. And combat testing against Russian missiles gives us priceless intelligence.

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