Ukraine Invasion: Part 40

[MagicFox]

40 threads, still here 🇺🇦

Thank you for the post @NetballHoop

@Liebig why are you on here? Seriously, why? Ego need polishing? Looking for validation?

Well done. You can follow your orders.

I strongly advise everyone to block this Russian bot.

I really wish there was a block button.

Try engaging in good faith with the topics and you may find out.

One last time.

We do not believe you are here in good faith. Quite a number of us have made that clear.

We do not want to engage with you on the basis of the crap you write here. Quite a number of us have made that clear too.

So if you want to engage with good faith, then you're best off finding a place that will tolerate your brand of "good faith"

If you want to barge in with your anti-Ukraine crap, we can't stop you.

But we know what you're up to, and it's trying to destroy support for Ukraine.

New: Ukraine’s Zelensky says there are "answers" about the timing of the next phase of the war with Russia. Zelensky posted on Telegram he had met senior military commanders, adding: "The main issue is the timing. And most importantly, there are answers regarding the timing."

Also recently reported:

Sevastopol explosions being reported. Storm Shadow?

If Russia wants peace, its a piece of piss for them. They withdraw to their own borders and stay the fuck out of other countries (including Crimea). Crimea can decide for itself if it wants to be Rusdian, Ukrainian or independent of either.

Russia (putin) is seemingly wanting to have a war, or they would have left already.

It's not fucking hard to figure out.

I just scroll by. I've realised the contributions don't actually add anything. Makes reading the thread much quicker - especially as I'm catching up

Absolutely!

This has been referenced before however its worth repeating:

A referendum on the Act of Declaration of Independence was held in Ukraine on 1 December 1991. An overwhelming majority of 92.3% of voters approved the declaration of independence made by the Verkhovna Rada on 24 August 1991

Crimea voted in favour of independence by a slim majority (54%) - but still in favour.
Since Russia invaded and illegally annexed Crimea in 2014 it has done what it always does in such cases and moved in native Russians to bolster Russian support.
This does not however mean that Crimea should belong to Russia - it is part of Ukraine. Any referendum taken now would be skewed in favour of Russia because of their deliberate resettlement policy.

Wasn't this also covered before in this thread? I thought I saw something saying it's not as cut and dry as that, or maybe I'm misremembering.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2014/05/08/despite-concerns-about-governance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/

I found this. It's old, though interesting.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/timeline-crimean-referendum/5773516

There's a few more mentioned on here, not just the Pew one.

I agree, I don't think Crimea should be left in Russian hands given the last referendum, so returning Crimea to Ukraine would be the correct thing to do, but, I do think that the people who live there say in five years (could be another timescale) should have the option of remaining as part of Ukraine or becoming independent. Give them the democracy to choose their own future.

From what I've been reading, I don't think that will go smoothly now. Ukraine seems to want Crimea and probably sees it the same way Madrid sees Catalonia. It's a bit of a pickle.

It is. The fact remains that it was given to Ukraine by Russia, and Russia invaded illegally and then transported a whole load of people in, and others out.

I think that anyone who arrived after 2014 should be ejected back to Russia - they knew they were buying illegally taken over houses - and all deported people who can prove they were born in Crimea before 2014 should be allowed back.

Allow 5 years for the dust to settle and frankly some counteraction of the endless pro-Russian propaganda and then hold a referendum.

Of course they want Crimea. It's part of their country. Would you be happy if Russia annexed Anglesey?

Cataluña is entirely different, it's not about a foreign state annexing a territory but rather about self determination.

It's really not that hard. And yet so many refuse to get it

Yes indeed.

The Crimea question is complex, they've had 9 years of Russification that we see them starting in the areas of the East that they control- child abduction, destruction of cultural icons, academic purges, enforced citizenship, subsidised immigration...

It's not simply a matter of asking the people that now live there.

There's no doubt in my mind (or international law) that Crimea needs to be returned to Ukraine but there is the possibility of self determination at some point in the future which would need to be carefully overseen and agreed by the international community to be given any credit.

In democracies we tend to think of things in political cycles of 5 years, Russia has always played the long game which is why re education of children begins at the same time as removal of troublesome civil servants.