How do private schools do it?

[Anotherday24]

Had a quick catch up with DD’s teacher a couple of days ago. DD’s always had good grades and been towards the top of her class since she started in reception, but recently has seemed quite down about school work.

Teacher told me that there had been an influx of “very clever” kids this year (the local private school closed and 7 DC joined the year). And it’s been a real shock to DD not having it all her own way and she has struggled to keep up with them, especially in English. It was almost as if he was crowing that DD is being out performed.

I’m trying to make sense of this. The school that closed down wasn’t selective. I find it strange that all 7 are SO much cleverer than the 20 odd state school kids. Is it just that they’ve already covered the syllabus, or they’ve been taught better? Perhaps their lockdown offering was better? Will it level off?

Also the teacher has taught this class for 2 years so shouldn’t he be concerned that all these new kids are doing so much better than the ones who have been taught at his school all the way through?

Just not sure what to make of it. Will DD (year 5) ever catch up? How do private schools do it?

Small class sizes, longer days, more discipline? No reason why your dd can't catch up though. However, it is a good lesson to learn that you can't always be top!

It’s probably just that they’ve done the work already. It will even out eventually- they all take the same exams at 16 and 18.

My dd went from being top at her state primary to a (admittedly selective) independent secondary where the majority had come from prep schools. They’d done proper science, French, team sports at a high level etc. She did feel inferior and disadvantaged at first, but by year 9 there was no difference and she did as well as them at GCSE level.

Was it a school that goes until age 18 or did the kids take exams and go out other schools at 7+, 11+ etc? What I'm trying to say is that maybe it's more selective than you realise? Many private schools will reject or manage out kids who struggle to cope or have Special Needs and this school might have been like that.

Of course your dd can catch up. State schools kids get top grades in exams like GCSE and A-level too.

I don't know. I have experienced the opposite. Private school kids joining state schools and surprised they are no longer the top of their class.

That's interesting but obviously irrelevant to the OP?

Of course your dd can catch up. State schools kids get top grades in exams like GCSE and A-level too

Quite often not as many though, tbf

I was at a State school, but mixed with a lot from private school in clubs. Overall, they were ahead and prepared properly for A-levels and elite universities. However, there was a noticeable amount of self-harming, eating disorders and drug use among the teenagers and their friends who went to public school. Among state school teenagers, far more truancy and messing about, but those who worked hard seemed to be happier.

@Harkonen I don't think it is irrelevant. Because the issue is individual schools. OP is lumping all private schools together, and the reality is it varies so much.

My dd moved from state to private in year 4 and what they expected them to do was hugely different. I remember she had to learn a poem off by heart and recite it in front of an audience then talk about a book she loved. I thought that was mad for an 8 year old, but she did it and loved it, I think because everyone else did it!

For balance- the school deteriorated hugely and she ended up going back to state and doing really well!

Agree with pp about the class size being much smaller. They just have so much more quality time with the teacher. Often behaviour is better as there are fewer disruptive kids.

I can give you an opinion - both my children are at a good private school - but of course it’s my opinion only.

I think the whole approach is a little different as each pupil is really encouraged to do the best they can at each stage and is celebrated for that. It becomes a virtuous circle where expectations are set high and then met and then reset - with the others wanting to level up to the best the whole time. The approach is instilled into the mindset of both the teachers and the pupils. No-one is teased for being a ‘swot’ or ‘teachers pet’ in my experience, but that is just my experience too.

Many private schools are also selective. Add to this, the educational background of the teachers is often impressive - they often have studied at Masters level or leading universities in their area of specialisation. The schools can be very selective in terms of teachers they bring onboard too.

in addition the fact that parents choose the school and pay a lot for it means that there are many after hours sessions, activities and similar - if there are not, then the parents will soon make their feelings clear and vote with their feet and wallet.

Finally, I do think the lessons during Covid did continue more effectively at some of these schools - a case of needing to meet parent’s expectations rather than the minimum needed again.

Sorry for the long answer - my opinion anyway!

Well, it’s just that particular year group from that particular school. It must be a shock for your DD, but in the long run it’s a great opportunity for her to be challenged. She will absolutely ‘catch up’ and perhaps achieve more because of this influx of children. Important for her to have a positive mindset - lots of encouragement from her teacher (and you at home) - so that she sees this as an opportunity and not a threat.

Wealthy educated parents who value education and pour money into extra curricular activities and telling/modelling to their children academic success = money.

We have a horrible tradition of reverse snobbery in the UK. Striving to be better is frowned upon and that follows through into our schools.

I believe they are 1.5 to 2 yrs ahead at the end of primary on average. It can be done as others say small class sizes regular assesment. Most private schools round here (11+ county) would give an hour's prep every night in yr 5.

Well, yes they do but in this case they are ahead of the state school kids. I think 2 years ahead is the accepted wisdom.

Smaller classes, more individual focus on the child, often more time to ensure something is understood, homework can be completed in school under supervision as longer days. One of the significant reasons people pay for their child to be educated is for the end result to be better than at a state school. Therefore, it’s to be expected that a comparison between two children who are otherwise academically similar will show the privately educated child is ahead.

I am not convinced of that when you compare like with like I.E. kids whose parents value education

Money! (Somewhat obviously.)

Far more money spent per pupil - which means smaller class sizes, so each child has the opportunity to be heard in each lesson. Teachers have fewer children to … administrate, so more time for individualised attention and extra help where needed.

As regards English, in particular - wealthier parents may have more books at home, and /or more time and energy to read to, and with their children from birth. The evidence for the benefits of this is incontrovertible. The children may have a wider experience of extra curricular activity - National Trust visits, theatre / museums / galleries, travel - meaning a wider vocabulary. Their rich enough to pay fees parents will on average have a higher level of education - again, better vocabulary and grasp of a wider range of abstract concepts.

So even in non-selective independent schools the pupil body is self-selected to be (as a whole) more ready and open to reading, thinking, learning, making progress … At least, from my observation and experience.

It could also be a coincidence, every now and then schools will get a really bright group of kids the same age.

In my DS junior school class there was an exceptionally bright 'top table' who I think benefited greatly from working with each other. My DN joined the school and SIL was outraged at him not being on the top table. School were quite clear that although DN would probably be top set in any other year, but not in that cohort. This was a state school.

smaller classes - less crowd control
when dc was at a private school they covered the (state) curriculum in 2 terms and that left the 3rd term for repetition, project work, exam preparation.

Might be this. My Dcs go to an independent and in Year 5 i was quite concerned about a book Ds1 was reading for English. (it was pretty grim and gave him nightmares). i researched it and found that it was one usually given to year 6s or year 7s.

Also the days are much longer. Ours is 8,15 to 4.30. So there is more time to get stuff in.

I would just see how you can support your DD if she is feeling down about school. She is clearly bright and clever and hopefully will pick up soon.

Private schools are paid to get results and are answerable to parents. State schools not so much.

Sounds as if this may be a learning opportunity for your daughter - there is always someone brighter and better etc.

Maybe the other 7 children will plateau and your daughter may catch up. Maybe they will continue to outperform her. You need to be careful not to put pressure on your daughter to catch up to them, don't make her feel inferior now that you perceive she has been knocked off the top spot.

From a different perspective - your daughter now has others to compete against - it’s not much fun being top of the class waiting for others to catch up. The teacher will have to set higher expectations and your daughter will be part of that. Yes her confidence has been knocked but she would have that at high school anyway. Better to learn now that you still have to work to keep up. It’s a great mindset to have.

Yeah, I hated the 'top table' thing at state school. Parents utterly up themselves about who was and wasn't on it. One of the reasons I moved dd was there was no such thing at the private school, everyone worked together and whatever their strengths were were celebrated. Streaming from year 9 at dd2s private school.

Smaller class sizes so more personal help if needed
Often working a year ahead in maths and English
Specialist teachers from reception for sport and ICT ..from Year 3 for core subjects and French and Drama
Longer school days so maybe an extra five hours a week min of teaching .
I work in an Independent Prep