How do private schools do it?

[Anotherday24]

Had a quick catch up with DD’s teacher a couple of days ago. DD’s always had good grades and been towards the top of her class since she started in reception, but recently has seemed quite down about school work.

Teacher told me that there had been an influx of “very clever” kids this year (the local private school closed and 7 DC joined the year). And it’s been a real shock to DD not having it all her own way and she has struggled to keep up with them, especially in English. It was almost as if he was crowing that DD is being out performed.

I’m trying to make sense of this. The school that closed down wasn’t selective. I find it strange that all 7 are SO much cleverer than the 20 odd state school kids. Is it just that they’ve already covered the syllabus, or they’ve been taught better? Perhaps their lockdown offering was better? Will it level off?

Also the teacher has taught this class for 2 years so shouldn’t he be concerned that all these new kids are doing so much better than the ones who have been taught at his school all the way through?

Just not sure what to make of it. Will DD (year 5) ever catch up? How do private schools do it?

@srin, as a aside, do you see mothers/parents pushing children, academically and do you think that can motivate them to a 'virtuous circle' re: their own independent study, later on?

One thing that makes a huge difference is behaviour. Teachers spend alot of time being disrupted by behaviour issues. A lack of SEN funded support staff is another massive issue. Private schools say they are non selective but I know from experience that's not wholly true, they select in discreet ways. Small classes with zero kids running around shouting, throwing things & not handling sitting down for more than 10 minutes is disruptive. Having 5-6 year olds still in nappies (not SEN) and parents that moan and complain teachers aren't supporting their child's needs enough means alot leave the profession. The best, most skilled teachers are not commonly found in private schools.

That's interesting to hear but what type of SEN is being supported and catered for. For example a child who is largely non verbal, dysregulated, in nappies, throws items, runs around room, hits, kicks, would this type of child be included? Ime children with this type of SEN who at many times of the day need 1:1 support and many other times 2:1 support. If the child is academically able and can be assessed as on par with peers would they be given a place. I ask because more and more children who would have been considered complex are sadly being put to mainstream but unsupported. The school is supposed to be able to cope with 1 teacher in the class and upto 32 others, many with ASN. I know some are accommodated in local authority SEN resources but most aren't and would private school parents want to know about a 2:1 being offered in a private school for same cost?

My friend teaches at a private school and the SEN children there are generally dyslexic or anxious (but academically able) with ASD.

Interesting about the longer hours-none of the private schools here have longer hours than the state ones. They do run homework clubs which go on later but the secondary schools start at 8.30 and finish at 3.30 with an hour for lunch. The schools with a 40 min lunch do tend to finish earlier though.

and they do not do as well at university as state educated pupils, probably because they've been spoon fed throughout their schooling (and gives the lie to the idea that private pupils are two years ahead)

The private school teens who get lower A level grades - I believe the research was CCD @- don't do as well.

Pupils who get A stars and As do equally well in fact I think private students with top grades do slightly better

As many have said, things like smaller class sizes make a huge difference. Pupils get much more input from the teacher and teachers have the time to make
each pupil's learning more personalised.

As a state teacher though I would say that parent attitude is a huge factor. By virtue of the fact that they have chosen to pay a lot of money to an educate their child, these parents are high stakeholders in the children’s education and clearly value it. Now of course, the same can be said for most parents of state educated pupils too but unfortunately their children are mixed with pupils whose parents give less than two hoots about education or any form of intervention, behaviour management and even extra tuition from the school. This attitude rubs off on their children who cause disruption in class, revision sessions etc. A very recent example of this in my school was the real GCSE language exams that ran a couple of weeks ago. We had lots of pupils not turn up to their scheduled exams and when the parents were informed we were just told “so? It’s not important” “they can just do them on a different day” “oh yes, I told him not to bother coming to his exam as I don’t agree with the subject”. This attitude runs off on the kids in lessons and also on their general attitude to rules and authority. It also often takes up more of the teacher’s time fixing, explaining, sorting the paperwork for these issues when that time could have been better spent providing detailed feedback, running a revision class, designing new or personalised resources etc.

It isn’t the issue more that state schools are having to deal with support needs they can’t meet adequately rather than private schools and SN provision? I wish labour would do some big thinking (and investing) here as many kids and teachers are being let down.

@Anotherday24 I’d boost your dd’s confidence - it doesn’t sound as though her teacher is tbh. I’m sure it’ll even out in the end.

I’ve got dc with ASD and anxiety at private school and they aren’t any smarter or further ahead than the smarter kids they were previously at state school with, but they are happier and better supported.

Some of them go to school on a Saturday!

To add to small class sizes (DC in classes of 14 and 9), I found that work was tailored to the children from v early on - eg in the class of 14, work on a maths topic would be set at 4-5 different levels depending on ability. And these 'sets' would vary for subjects and children regularly moved between sets depending on their progress.

Also, yearly exams in all subjects from year 1. So DD's would have to spend time revising the years science, geography, history etc. I think getting used to revision and sitting a paper set them up well for senior school exams and GCSE's.

I hear you but the system in Scotland is very different, it's much better to work in, it's far harder to qualify for and to get through probation to become a teacher in Scotland, Teachfirst etc isn't a thing. The education system is different in principal, more in common with Australia and Scandinavian ethos now becoming a big feature of early years. It is definitely not perfect though with loads of things that don't match up, eg Play ethos dominating age 5-7 but standardised testing still used to 'measure' success.

Clever people tend to have better paid jobs so can afford the private education for their clever children . Also small classes and expectations will pay a big part . Longer teaching hours ? Extra tutoring for 11plus etc . I doubt they’re all naturally more
intelligent. Don’t
confuse education with intelligence. The teacher sounds like a dick !

I think it’s the culture. I can only speak for our independent, but these kids are worked seriously hard, and the school culture is that they work themselves hard (or their parents do, I guess). Far harder than I ever worked at their age. I think the idea that they are spoon fed is a bit misleading - I can only really look at what DD is doing compared to what DH and I did as kids, but our experience suggests that these outcomes are influenced by the sheer number of hours they are required to put in.

DD1 is in Y4. She had homework every night this week except Friday - sometimes working until 9pm. This morning she went to Saturday school and this afternoon she has an hour of maths, an hour of English and 30 mins of music. I completely agree that she is very privileged to be somewhere where her classes aren’t disturbed by disruptive behaviour etc, and hugely lucky to be in an environment where this work ethic is encouraged, but it isn’t the case that the information was magically transplanted into her brain by osmosis due to her privilege- she still had to sit there doing the work.

I’m not actually sure that this is the right way to be doing things, by the way, and we are actually looking around at other options, but that’s the reality of what some schools ask of kids. I feel that her childhood is passing her by a bit. No amount of privilege can magically cause there to be more hours in the day…

The point about educated parents rings true at our school too. In DD’s Y3 class last year, there were 17 kids, I think, and only perhaps 4 or 5 of those kids didn’t have at least one parent with an Oxbridge degree.

I haven’t found state school behind but I’m talking from perspective of invested parents, which can happen in both sectors

DD1 is in Y4. She had homework every night this week except Friday - sometimes working until 9pm. This morning she went to Saturday school and this afternoon she has an hour of maths, an hour of English and 30 mins of music

I think that is a bit sad really. My dc did have a 30 min music lesson this afternoon but played sport with their friends in the morning & then one had a party.

I agree, actually- as I say, this isn’t what we planned and we are thinking about alternatives.

Having worked in both private & state schools I would say you do get disengaged parents in the private sector too who expect the school to do everything!

@MrsR87

I completely agree parent attitude and support really is everything.

Loads of privates are preps so they need to do what parents want which us get dc ready for entrances exams.

As above you have to work for this.

@Peverellshire I think everyone is different but a lot of children do thrive under a bit of pressure. It encourages them to work harder and therefore they succeed more and gain confidence. Success is known to be great for motivation and motivation leads to independent study. That’s if it all goes right and the child isn’t expected to perform beyond their capabilities! Most parents gets the balance right but there are some extreme ones.

There are also plenty of ‘pushy’ parents in the state sector who have tutors and extra lessons at the weekend etc. Their children tend to do pretty well.

The others extreme is having low expectations and never pushing a child to go for anything challenging. This isn’t great either.

I think the idea that they are spoon fed is a bit misleading

Completely.

But honestly op, your dd clearly has a dick of a teacher - that can happen anywhere!

Private school pupils will generally have more engaged parents who show interest in their kids' education, do homework and extra work with them, "teach" them things at home. Their kids can probably read, write and know their numbers before they start primary school. Yes, some parents of kids at state schools do that too, but the proportions are likely to be less. State primaries are very slow to progress their pupils as a much higher proportion will start school without knowing how to read, write and numbers (many don't even know how to write their own name), so teacher time will be spent on the basics whilst they let the more advanced pupils "cruise" with less attention.

My kids did state primary and selective private secondary. DS2 in particular was at the top of his class and often working alone on extension materials because, as PPs have said, teachers need to focus (rightly) on children getting to expected level rather than those exceeding being pushed harder and higher.

Easier in smaller classes where there is a lower proportion of struggling pupils.

Your DD may well benefit from having higher performing peers.

Gosh that seems a lot. None of the schools we've used have done that in year 4

It's just a really lazy trope. What does it even mean?