How do private schools do it?

[Anotherday24]

Had a quick catch up with DD’s teacher a couple of days ago. DD’s always had good grades and been towards the top of her class since she started in reception, but recently has seemed quite down about school work.

Teacher told me that there had been an influx of “very clever” kids this year (the local private school closed and 7 DC joined the year). And it’s been a real shock to DD not having it all her own way and she has struggled to keep up with them, especially in English. It was almost as if he was crowing that DD is being out performed.

I’m trying to make sense of this. The school that closed down wasn’t selective. I find it strange that all 7 are SO much cleverer than the 20 odd state school kids. Is it just that they’ve already covered the syllabus, or they’ve been taught better? Perhaps their lockdown offering was better? Will it level off?

Also the teacher has taught this class for 2 years so shouldn’t he be concerned that all these new kids are doing so much better than the ones who have been taught at his school all the way through?

Just not sure what to make of it. Will DD (year 5) ever catch up? How do private schools do it?

YerAWizardHarry the difference is that in the private school the kids can't opt out of this task. I'm a class of 33 in Scotland about half the kids wouldn't bother and parents wouldn't have acknowledged the homework.

Smaller class sizes, parental pressure and involvement, higher expectations all lead to a higher level of teaching and learning.

They do far better at gcse level, at least locally. 8s and 9s are normal.

The difference is glaringly obvious: Money, followed by selection of the brightest and most engaged pupils/families. That's it.

I govern/chair in state schools and my children go to an independent.

State schools just don't have the funding.

Class sizes are bigger, enough time isn't giving to teachers for CPD, and to apply it consistently and share with others. There are children of every ability so they can't specialise in teaching able students only.
Decisions are (rightly) made so that ALL children can access the curriculum. In private schools they don't bat an eyelid about doing kayaking during PE as they have the facilities and parents can afford to send the relevant kit in.

Also, children are mixing with like minded children so the effects of good parenting and schooling at home are amplified by a collective effect.

You can create this to a certain degree with your child at state school. Pay for tutoring or regimentally teach your children as their tutor.

Seek out opportunities to develop speaking and listening skills. Eg local youth parliament or leadership skills such as football refereeing.

My belief is that children are often limited by the ability of their own parents to know what is required.

Yes I’d forgotten this. Mine went back on the very first day that the government rules allowed so had teaching from them until the summer holidays. Most state schools didn’t do this, certainly not in my local area.

Turn it back on the school - what are they going to do to ensure your DD meets her full potential? Take it as a great opportunity for your DD to be challenged.

Agree with this

Here in the UK we seem to confuse 'ability' with 'current attainment', no, your Y3 and Y4 are not necessarily less smart that those with coveted places at the 'top table'. It is entirely possible to boost an average base line to 'greater depth' with an 'interested parent' behind a child.

One of my teacher friends thought she had a mathematical genius on her hands the parents had been highly invested in Kumon from birth (practically)!. This child was deemed brilliant and taught by the head in a GandT enrichment group, populated largely by the teachers kids (?) (v large primary).

Anyway, I digress and explained what they had on their hands, potentially was a child who was brilliant and quick at arithmetic, by 11, a veritable human calculator and faster than all the staff! The thing was they treated this child, unwittingly, differently.. They have a bright future and more opportunities as a result.

There are many downsides of course...

My belief is that children are often limited by the ability of their own parents to know what is required.

This. A million times. Should be at the top of every Education thread. And a mantra for this whole site.

At the heart of it is class sizes, which allows for more individual attention. One on one reading most days, more help throughout the day with all subjects really. DCs school has a full time TA in each class from R to Yr2, so with class sizes averaging 16 you can see clearly how much more focus each child gets.

They also focus on getting the bottom end of the ability range up to scratch, extra lessons in maths, handwriting, phonics, etc for those that need it. I believe this helps the class overall to continue learning at pace.

Not sure I buy into the longer hours point, I think that covers the extra holidays. And remember how much extra sport they do so it’s not all academics.

Homework also plays a big role, not just in terms of coverage but in helping kids start to work more independently. From Yr3 at DCs school they get homework every night. In Yr2 it’s three pieces a week.

Despite any ‘research’ I’ve seen into class sizes having absolutely no impact on teaching and learning, I think it has a huge impact!

All private schools are by definition selective. Selection by wealth means that you end up with a cohort of children GENERALLY with better educated parents and none of the issues associated with poverty. These are the most important indicators of academic achievement.

Our local Prep has the 'reading quiz' thing, whereby you HAVE to answer questions on your reading book and get points (?) accordingly. I have seen these kids, slowly, move away from iPads and get the good old fashioned 70s 'reading bug', you know with actual physical books, and this has a hugely positive influence on all their study/work/development/writing etc.

We have a rarefied group from said Prep at our Brownies, I love it how they smell of books! A smell I remember from my youth :) and they READ and read and read and read...

Absolutely and often 'a higher ability' child is often an 'average' one with an interested parent. So no one should be beating self up. It's so interesting how the UK sees ability as largely fixed and fixed, early...

@TiredOfCleaning I was just about to start a separate thread about mainstream private schools that welcome children with SEN. Do you mind if I send a PM to ask for a few more details?

I’ve taught in both and would say on average 25% of teaching time in a state school is managing behaviour compared to 5-10% in a private school.

The biggest single factor in how well kids do at school is the educational attainment of their mothers, followed by the number of books in the house. Private schools are full of the children of parents who have themselves got good grades at school and university and have chosen careers that mean they can afford private education. But there is no evidence they outperform children from equivalent social backgrounds who attend state schools, and they do not do as well at university as state educated pupils, probably because they've been spoon fed throughout their schooling (and gives the lie to the idea that private pupils are two years ahead).

There was an interesting social experiment into the impact of private education in the US, a few States had a lottery to allow some pupils to go to private school for free. There was no selection, it was a complete lottery. There was no increase in attainment in the pupils who went to private school.

It is not class sizes, other countries have larger class sizes than the UK and outperform us in international comparisons. Homework has been shown to have no impact on performance at primary school. It's just the parents.

Living in the States I was shocked by how many families had the TV on as a constant noise/companion. Books, few...Generally.

Couldn't agree more. The private schools have longer days (although longer holidays too) and they aim to be teaching them about a year ahead. It will, as you say even out.

Goodness, I'm surprised at this. My son is in year 5 at a private schools and gets no where near this much homework!

Maybe so they have a wider knowledge around the subject which would help in the exams? I'm not sure about any other reason

DD went to yr 7 in an indie after state school. She met up with old classmates at half term, and she had completed far more than her state counterparts. The teachers were able to teach rather than try to manage 'Nick and 'Luke' and evacute the class every day.
DS1 went to a prep after state first school, again high expectations over behaviour,( DS1 was beginning to show more challenging behaviour in stare school, all but disappeared at prep until he was a teenager, senior school it started to unravel) academically challenging made him work rather than coasting.

Longer prep school days included evening 'prep' and PE every day, including Saturday afternoon matches, which all were included. The boys were physically kept busy, so they were able to concentrate in class. He was at gcse level at 13. Coasted until 16!
It's a different culture in indie, but I agree that the school can manage out kids who don't suit and it's parents' responsibility to deal with the aftermath.

Having worked in both, I don’t think it is class sizes. I think it is high expectations from parents and teachers, longer days, homework, regular assessments that help children become better at exam technique, a good work ethic from a high number of the students, generally more work and more pressure. It isn’t every private school that is like this and some go for a more gentle approach than others.

The posts on here over SATs are quite revealing though. I don’t know any private school parent who would be unhappy about their children doing revision, practice papers or exams. Many on here seem to think it is cruel or too pressured for children. I guess it depends what you want for your children.

I went from private to state in the 80s. In private school the class was much smaller (about 15 kids? Maybe less?), there was a lot of attention and time for each child, we also had longer days and were simply taught more.

Add to that that it's mostly smart parents that have the money to send their kids to private schools, and smart parents tend to have smart children. Having an above average class does help with how efficiently you can teach them a subject.

Part of it is smaller class sizes but even without being “selective” they are selective… they aren’t the kids of binmen and supermarket till staff are they? Dc of doctors, high earning business women and men etc are likely to be genetically bright to start with.

Can only speak from our experience. Our DC have around 1.5 hours more teaching a day, not including after school clubs, than friends at the local state school. Lock down work was generally the same with few exceptions like games and art. Have always been told they work at least a year ahead in the independent system. That said, we have friends whose DC are very bright, go to a state school, and would give most at our school a run for their money.