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USA middle & upper mc.. How do they compare to UK & Irish MC & UC

168 replies

Merryandbright1 · 25/04/2023 16:35

Big difference for me (have family on the East Coast) is the mc style in the East Coast is very preppy (Ralph Lauren, Kate Spade.. Plus Tommy Hilfigger for the teens), understated. And the children do very expensive activities.

OP posts:
Grumpafrump · 27/04/2023 13:10

Oh, another UMC one: expensive residential summer camps. Most MMC on up went to a residential summer camp for a week, but the UMC kids went for several weeks to the expensive high octane sports camps, the official NASA space camp, etc.

CarolinaInTheMorning · 27/04/2023 13:17

The British definition of class doesn’t translate universally.

Especially where accents are concerned. Regional accents don't usually signify class in the US.

Triedit · 27/04/2023 19:16

Yes Middle Class in the USA means more of the average family and it used to mean of a certain modest but secure financial status, so yes, more akin to a working class/upper working class in the UK. When I moved to the USA initially over 25 yrs ago most people in the US considered themselves Middle Class while most people in the UK would have called themselves Working Class. While “MC” in the UK was most definitely NOT considered the Average Joe and most MC would have been offended by the suggestion, as it was associated with professional white collar jobs and larger homes in well to do areas; Average Joe and Middle Class have very different connotations in the USA and mean something different. They mean the average family, who are solid citizens, modest but respected and the backbone of the nation. A solid factory job which paid the bills and meant a family in a small town could buy their own home were most definitely MC in the USA, while in the UK, the job, location and neighborhood would have pegged them as culturally WC/UWC.

Unfortunately the economic policies that have affected the average worker everywhere in the West which focused on Globalism and moving manufacturing to China, have had a very detrimental affect on the USA Middle Class. There has been a hollowing out and what had been modestly prosperous small towns which have fallen into poverty or are definitely struggling much more than they were 30+ years ago.

Just like in the UK, those with access to good higher education, skills and knowledge economy jobs have moved up the social ladder (at least, until recently) and the already wealthy have become EXTREMELY wealthy. As the USA is still the biggest economy in the world, if you are at the top of the tree here and were investing you couldn’t have failed to make a killing. UMC here is now very lavish, while much of the “Middle Class” has sunk lower into the more insecure working class. The Middle Class has shrunk and now to maintain a modest but comfortable standard of living it can cost a great deal more just to hold your place in the social structure, especially in the large coastal cities, where the “Middle Class” would be wealthy in other parts of the nation.

The huge economic changes explain a lot of the extreme political changes, along with the rise of the internet and social media.

Average wages have stagnated since the ‘70s while the net wealth at the top (UMC and above) has exploded. People are now living completely different lives from others in other parts of the nation (or within their state) in many areas and don’t appreciate they are in a bubble. So while the upper classes obsess about Identity Politics, many in what was the MC are barely hanging on, and just like in the UK are in debt. Often not because they are crazy consumers but because they got a medical bill when they were not insured or were not covered, or divorced and had to maintain two households.

Although, it’s still possible, if you pick up strong trade skills (plumbing, electrician) or a decent degree you can move into some of the smaller big cities and still afford a modest house. Again, the housing stock where the jobs are is low, just as in the UK. Many families that in the past would have sent kids to the local state/public college can no longer afford to do so and have to be ready to take on debt. It often seems to me that the UK has taken on the worse US policies (like paying for college) that have impoverished the generations under 45.

I think there is a very careful avoidance by the MSM and multinationals to talk about class and economic disparity, that’s why it seems they have gone full-on embracing all the latest Identity Politics groups (transgender etc) because it means they don’t actually have to change anything and takes the heat and attention away from them.

This started particularly after the Economic Crash of 2008 when the Occupy Wall Street Movement actually scared the crap out of the multinationals on Wall Street, they wanted to quickly move the narrative and focus away from their destructive economic policies and greed and focus on topics a lot more unthreatening to them and superficial economically. You can be sure that if Wall St is supporting your movement and ideology it won’t change anything for the better for ordinary people, especially women.

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mathanxiety · 27/04/2023 22:34

whumpthereitis · 27/04/2023 12:33

Low class according to the standards of which country though?

The British definition of class doesn’t translate universally.

I actually think that holds true for both the US and the UK. I live in a UMC area and the class signifies are fugly Keen and similar sandals and clothing, sporting a discreet natural tan in April, a windswept but very healthy look to the hair, practical winter wear, no flashy designer handbags or visible logos on clothing or outerwear, no gel nails, very natural makeup, big stones in engagement ring. No dog hair though, and clothing is never wrinkled or untidy.

mathanxiety · 27/04/2023 22:42

dreamingbohemian · 26/04/2023 11:02

$100-500k working class: They are mainly pay period to pay period. $0-100k poor/destitute: This group is so very vulnerable. Mainly illegal immigrants.

Delusional AND racist. Lovely.

What am I reading?

$100-500k = working class? Living paycheck to paycheck?
I need a chair. My knees are wobbling.

mathanxiety · 27/04/2023 22:51

Aintnosupermum · 26/04/2023 04:25

@knitnerd90 you are probably in the $1-10m net worth category! Calm down.

Income in America really doesn’t mean much because so many people fritter it away on rubbish. I’ve noticed a lot of the state colleges don’t cost so much less than the private colleges. The whole business of education is jarring.

Very few students pay the ticket price at any university, public or private.

My DCs emerged from university with very little debt. The average was $7k. So far, two have gone to private universities and two to public (in-state).

There are iirc 66 private universities and liberal arts colleges that offer to meet the full demonstrated financial need of all admitted students. For some, this means a full ride. For others, it means a partial waiver of the cost of attendance, which can often be a substantial reduction of the price.

Public universities can also be very good value for money, especially for students with excellent grades.

mathanxiety · 27/04/2023 22:54

Aintnosupermum · 26/04/2023 03:37

Living in the US you have a social structure.

WASPs - No one likes this group. Referred to as snobs and English.

Billionaires - some self made and some inherited. These people are worshipped. These people are upper class.

Millionaires ($100m+) - Deep respect. Seen as worthy. These people are upper class.

Millionaires ($50-100m) - bottom rung of upper class in the majority of cases.

These upper class groups will tend to have certain things in common such as large donations to financial institutions, Ivy League education as a legacy student is standard and they have a family office with a foundation.

Millionaires ($10-50m) top rung of upper middle class in the majority of cases.

Millionaires ($1-10m) upper middle class. Normally have a bachelor and masters degree, not necessarily from an Ivy League school

$500k-$1m middle class. A health incident will floor them.

$100-500k working class. They are mainly pay period to pay period.

$0-100k poor/destitute. This group is so very vulnerable. Mainly illegal immigrants.

As you move from the coasts you can adjust the numbers a little bit but honestly not that much. What’s interesting to me is how certain upper class people are socially excluded. A good example is Ivana Trump and her husband Jared Kushner. Both have an Ivy League education because their parents donated to the schools they attended. Ivana has never been accepted by nyc society.

Brits need to understand that most Americans hate the English and Americans don’t differentiate between being British and being English.

There are some crazy posts on this thread, but this one takes the biscuit.

MissConductUS · 27/04/2023 23:32

There are some crazy posts on this thread, but this one takes the biscuit.

It was the comment about New Yorkers that got the crazy award from me.

Luredbyapomegranate · 27/04/2023 23:38

E Coast middle class kids do not all dress in preppy style I can assure you.

Pallisers · 28/04/2023 00:44

mathanxiety · 27/04/2023 22:54

There are some crazy posts on this thread, but this one takes the biscuit.

yeah but in fairness I think the poster lives in Texas. It must take a toll on your mental health.

queenofarles · 28/04/2023 12:10

Ivana has never been accepted by nyc society
do you mean Ivanka? She was everywhere but by 2015 started retreating prior to her father’s announcing to run for the election,
also I imagine marrying someone as wealthy as Kushner, NYC are desperate for their acceptance and not the other way round.

knitnerd90 · 28/04/2023 13:34

Even in NYC society has layers. I dare say parts of NYC didn't accept Ivanka.

Also, the Kushners are 1) from New Jersey and 2) Jared's father went to prison (and the details are more than slightly sordid). These are not helpful things in the city.

whumpthereitis · 28/04/2023 13:35

queenofarles · 28/04/2023 12:10

Ivana has never been accepted by nyc society
do you mean Ivanka? She was everywhere but by 2015 started retreating prior to her father’s announcing to run for the election,
also I imagine marrying someone as wealthy as Kushner, NYC are desperate for their acceptance and not the other way round.

Lol, no. Ivanka is persona non grata in the NYC elite social circles.

whumpthereitis · 28/04/2023 13:40

mathanxiety · 27/04/2023 22:34

I actually think that holds true for both the US and the UK. I live in a UMC area and the class signifies are fugly Keen and similar sandals and clothing, sporting a discreet natural tan in April, a windswept but very healthy look to the hair, practical winter wear, no flashy designer handbags or visible logos on clothing or outerwear, no gel nails, very natural makeup, big stones in engagement ring. No dog hair though, and clothing is never wrinkled or untidy.

That is definitely true in the US, or at least parts of it. Tbh I was thinking more of Italy than the US in that one, which would be considered ‘flashy’ by British standards (though not necessarily Italian ones). Oh, and the wealthy Russians that emerged from the collapse of the USSR.

queenofarles · 28/04/2023 14:45

But what circles are you talking about ? Lauder Goldman , Schwarzman?
or
Derek "pay me and I’ll show up" Blasberg ? And LSG ?
the Kushners perhaps belong to one but not the other, but there are so many factors to take into consideration which I’m sure you are familiar with,

mathanxiety · 28/04/2023 15:37

@whumpthereitis - the Russians around here fit in seamlessly, though they tend to draw the line at Keens. They are mostly musicians or former Soviet scientists/ academics, and the second generation, born in the US, are all very bright and motivated students.

whumpthereitis · 28/04/2023 18:44

mathanxiety · 28/04/2023 15:37

@whumpthereitis - the Russians around here fit in seamlessly, though they tend to draw the line at Keens. They are mostly musicians or former Soviet scientists/ academics, and the second generation, born in the US, are all very bright and motivated students.

Understandable. I too would draw the line at Keens.

The brain drain emigrants. I’m not thinking of them, I’m thinking of the ‘New Russians’, a very different animal.

whumpthereitis · 28/04/2023 18:56

queenofarles · 28/04/2023 14:45

But what circles are you talking about ? Lauder Goldman , Schwarzman?
or
Derek "pay me and I’ll show up" Blasberg ? And LSG ?
the Kushners perhaps belong to one but not the other, but there are so many factors to take into consideration which I’m sure you are familiar with,

I’m talking about the upper east side set she was part of, that dropped her when she went MAGA. I’m sure there are people that would welcome them in NYC, but those aren’t the ones they want to be welcomed by.

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