USA middle & upper mc.. How do they compare to UK & Irish MC & UC

[Merryandbright1]

Big difference for me (have family on the East Coast) is the mc style in the East Coast is very preppy (Ralph Lauren, Kate Spade.. Plus Tommy Hilfigger for the teens), understated. And the children do very expensive activities.

@Cam22 do you want to try and sound a little more condescending? I think some people might have missed it. For what it’s worth, you lot only seem to see the worth of culture and antiquities as castles and white history.

My relatives are very prepp. The men included, their every day wear is basically chinos, a belt, RL polo shirt with a jumper slung over the shoulders.. Honestly they are like real life Ralph Lauren ads!

Yes exactly! The thread is about the differences between U. S, G. B & Irish MC & Umc.. You've hit differences right on the head.

Me. too, @Pallisers ! She/he are just going to keep building on that theme until someone breaks down and responds! 😂

Yes totally agree. I've relatives in Connecticut, very wealthy, very polished, live in a very exclusive town. The kids are in private Catholic schools, the chosen extracurriculars include hockey, lacrosse, rowing & debating. Two instruments was a non negotiable for them.
Style wise very preppy, simple expensive jewellery, beautiful hair & natural makeup. All have a natural sun-kissed hair & great teeth. All the kids get braces young. Middle class Americans are obsessed with good teeth.

Obviously it is an extreme but I loved the episode of Succession where the Roy family met the Pierce family - it was a wonderful contrast between the brash, self made, “new money” Roys, and the studied manners, discreet good taste, and condescending attitude of the “old money Pierces.

It seemed to suggest that although it works differently from the UK, there is still a class structure in the US.

I wasn’t attempting to offer a detailed analysis on the dress codes of the British classes. I was referring to the common mumsnet trope that class = understated and/or carefully curated poverty.

American here who lives in the UK. People who identify as ‘middle class’ in America are not nearly as mc as in the UK. Middle class in the US is a bit more like upper working class in the UK. My family in the US is ‘middle class’ as was nearly everyone I knew. We were definitely not middle class by British standards.

I think most British people have an odd view of America. It’s definitely not all fancy cars and expensive hobbies. Actually many people are working class to quite poor. It’s not what you see in films or amongst YouTubers.

Class in the US is much more about how you see yourself than your cultural and social capital, plus money. So it’s very aspirational and there is more social mobility. I’m quite ‘British middle class’ in an embarrassing sort of way. I would still be mc in America. But there are mc Americans who would not fit the stereotype of mc here.

In terms of upper mc/wealthy, in the US there is old money and new money and they have very different cultural signifiers and they often don’t mingle (willingly) with each other. There are also a lot of people who are non-American and wealthy who don’t easily fit within those classifications. For example, I used to hang out with a lot of rich Germans. They had all their own class distinctions even within the US.

I don't think Ireland should be lumped in, in the title. I've never in 45 years heard anyone mention the terms middle or upper class here. It's just different. Working class yes.

@mikado1

I live in a midlands city and there is a lot of us here with Irish parents and grandparents. I distinctly remember my mum talking about different groups in our city, particularly the more “middle class irish” as she would say, they were a different breed 😂.

Well, perhaps your mum got used to the expression from England? Honestly, I just don't think most people think in terms of class. It would be more 'They have money/Do you know who their father is?/Talk about notions!' Most of my friends would be termed MC/UMC, going by MN, but the expression or any discussion of it would be nonexistent. People would think you're a bit odd/judges to make any such comment. And it would be working class people themselves that would use that expression moreso, certainly not as lower class or a derogative.

I thought that middle class in the UK was having books on show - so I went a bought a few books and scattered them around my home. Have not read them yet but they are good as coasters. I guess I’m not getting into that group.

😆

Yep Cam needs to be ignored @Notanevillandlord It's an interesting topic & the differences have mentioned have been complex but merited.

@mikado1 have you not heard of "D4Heads"? I'm a Northerner who spent my 20s living in Co Wicklow. Co Wicklow was also extremely middle class especially around Enniskerry. I had lots of local friends from work & anyone they thought was snobby or uppity was either a genuine "D4" (basically a southsider not actually confined to Dublin 4) or worse "a wannabe D4" (ones will dillusions of grandeur or notions 😏)

"The same can be said about the British middle and upper classes tbh. The approved uniform consists of a sweater covered in dog hair and a wax jacket. It’s just as contrived, and as an outsider looking in, I don’t see the inherent superiority of it."

DS was attending an event at a local prep school the other day, and when I arrived to collect him, I got invited it to watch the prize giving. Having just walked the dog, I felt a bit self-conscious going in in my waterproof coat and muddy wellies, and wished I'd known to change into something smarter.

Got inside and realised I fitted it perfectly and would have stuck out like a sore thumb in "smart clothes".

Actually that's not the first time I've noticed that phenomenon. Going for university interviews I remembering realising that only the comprehensive school kids wore smart clothes. The private school pupils turned up looking like they'd just walked my dog.

That. So I'm baffled by anyone talking about books, cars, preppy clothes, any clothing choice, country clubs. None of that is relevant. It's your income bracket relative to others in your area that matters. MOST Americans view themselves as middle class as in middle bracket income. Probably can manage to buy their home or at least reliably pay the rent (some property repossessions may happen, though). Pay their taxes. Steady employment, car mostly reliable, not on welfare. Welders (Blue collar), HGV drivers, electrician business owner, road builders, hair cutters, part time immigration lawyers, dental receptionists, registered nurses, civil engineers, probation officers, social workers, farmers, army sergeants, UPS managers, school district translators, fashion buyers, veterinarian nurses, statisticians, paralegals, chefs, novelists, sales, teachers, university lecturers are ALL middle class. ()

Increasingly I hear Americans mention working class but it's kind of new phrasing, and tends to mean a social group without job security and struggle to find a path to get it. We used to just say poor: welfare moms, people without health insurance benefits, subsidence agriculture workers, casual labourers, rednecks, taxi drivers, delivery drivers, people scavenging cans, beggars.

() describing most the occupations in my family, close friends

@MadameSzyszkoBohusz it's so interesting isn't it! I find sociology & lifestyles fascinating 😊 I'm sure someone has a more eloquent name for my fascination! The differences in the mc & umc across the continents, countries & even regions within countries is amazing.
I do think there is a such huge contrast between the USA mc & GB.
USA is more like mainland Europe esp Italy, Austria & Germany where the style would be pristine, understated, monied & preppy.
GB is eclectic & outdoorsy.

Money and class are not the same thing in the US, though there is less class awareness overall. The middle class probably has the most blurred lines, but once you get to the UMC and UC there is a difference between people that belong to those classes and people that just make a similar amount of money. The two may mix socially but they are not the same. This is more noticeable on the East Coast; California is a bit odd due to the mixture of people and the inclusion of Hollywood/celebrities.

Even if you do remove the social aspect and look only at economic class, you have to remember that the thresholds are very different. Sociologists consider economic MC to start at $150k/year in average states and around $300k/year in expensive states. UMC starts at $1m+ anywhere.

I'd say the American equivalent of working class is 'blue-collar', or it used to be

But if you're blue collar and eventually make a lot of money you do move up the class ladder. The idea that you could live in a huge house and make 100k a year and still be working class doesn't really compute.

Oh I know a few D4s alright 😆 but that's my point really they weren't referred to by using terms of MC etc, and it was a handy reference code for so much in college!

It's true that middle class in the US covers a much larger swath of the population than in the UK. Most people identify as middle class, and occupation matters less than income does. So a plumber earning a good income will identify as middle class and might be living next door to a lawyer or executive, who also identify as middle class. And what your parents did for a living doesn't come into it much at all, except perhaps in certain parts of the South or Northeast.

Just wow, funny you come across as someone entirely lacking any cultural awareness.

Another dumb ridiculous post for idiotic insecure Mimsnetters to insult Americans.

God yes! Even in my 20s the term "D4" covered a multitude 😁