Night weaning: all for nothing

[Softsoftsleep]

Ive previously written about my utter exhaustion breastfeeding my 14 months old during the night. She ou knew how to fall asleep on the breast. I would co sleep to get some kind of semblance of sleep, but it was terrible; poor quality and claustrophobic. I do not want to co sleep anymore. Mumsnet and I agreed it was time to sleep train, especially as I was starting work soon.

3 weeks ago, I commenced the process, whereby instead of breastfeeding baby to sleep, I lay her down in her cot awake, over and over again, until she fell asleep. I shushed and patted her and never left her side. The first night it took her 2 hours to go to sleep and another 2 hours during the night, but it seemed to get shorter each night.

There were some dark moments where she fought it, and by stopping breastfeeding suddenly, I ended up with mastitis. However, my mind frame was that it would all be worth it in the end. There have definitely been some stretches in how long I sleep, but she is still fighting the initial put-down and is waking up. Offering water doesnt work, and baby was so distraught and for so long that we worried the neighbours would complain and that she was actually hungry. So I fed her. The same of deflation I felt when I finally gave in was just so...meh.

Same tonight. Took ages for her to go over, woke 30 minutes later, shushed her to sleep again, then 3 hours later, here I am breastfeeding her ad she was so hesitant to to even lying down when I went into her to settle her.

So now I feel like I've lost motivation for sticking with weaning as the baby has been so resistant to it and I have given confusing messages by giving in. It's hard to hold resolve when she has been crying for an hour and you've to get up for work in 2 hours, as us what has happened this week.

I thought 'no pain, no gain' but feel like I've gone back to square 1.

@Porridgeislife what did you replace it with for the baby and what exactly did you cut out? Milk, cheese, butter, yoghurt, Cream etc?

I think the snuffles can definitely cause an issue. I am trying to get DS3 (20mo) to stay in his cot but it's just a losing game any time he has a hint of a cold.

It definitely doesn't help. Ive a few 4emediesbtgat i will try with her today to clear her nose and see if that helps . My middle child woke every 2 hours and I thought that was bad but this is worse. I stopped breastfeeding the middle child totally just for some sleep but gave her a bottle of cows milk instead, and she woke just as frequently in the night for it!

She was eating a lot of Greek yoghurt and also cheese in her meals so that was the main thing we cut out. I cut out all dairy and soy in my diet (reading labels etc), for me that was mainly yoghurt, butter & cheese and processed foods like biscuits sadly!

I find it reasonably easy to feed her dairy free, the hardest bit is avoiding cheese. Oatly Barista milk is considered fine for babies over 12 months. If I slip up her sleep is atrocious.

Haven't read whole thread as not got time, but in case helpful, I did an online consult with No Milk Like Mamas for support with stopping bf and improving sleep gently. DD was older, just over 2, but you could still use similar advise if you can afford it. I don't think it was insane money, maybe £150 and two weeks of follow up support via email after being sent a report with advice.

I don't like sleep training. As a result our method was to habit stack with other things in advance of weaning and gradually cutting feeds down until only night ones left. Then I'd feed to sleep and do a dream feed, then a feed at 3.00 then it was over to DH for anything else. Then the 3.00 feed got cut. Then DH started doing more bedtimes and I would come in to feed but not do the settling and books bit. Then I went cold turkey and DH did all bedtimes for maybe one or two weeks and we were done.

Stopping BF didn't improve my DDs sleep. She's been weaned about eight months now and is only just starting to sleep through the night.

You've confused her massively. No point doing night weaning if you're just going to 'give in '

There's a particularly awkward thing that happens when the primary carer goes back to work in that the baby craves their company more, and thus wakes more, just when they need their sleep more to deal with work. It does settle a bit with time as they become more used to other carers in the day.

I have to say night weaning didn't really improve sleep for us - we did it about 2 years and completely weaned at 2.5 and it wasn't until 4.5 he would reliably sleep through (though he did gradually reduce wakings after a peak at about the time I went back to work).

Babies naturally have shorter sleep cycles and being settled back often but quickly doesn't mean they're necessarily getting a disturbed night -even though it's hell for adults who need longer cycles ti be fully rested. Using motion trackers on babies shows they don't wake less after sleep training, they just don't need help to resettle, so I wouldn't worry about your baby's sleep unless there are other signs of tiredness.

But I totally get how exhausting it is for you - our solution was to split the night into shifts so we each got an uninterrupted stretch at a consistent time if night - it's amazing how much of a sanity saving difference it made. My husband gave a bottle of expressed milk at first and later formula. The pantley pull-off and other forms of gradual retreat really helped to create more independent settling without creating distress - anything that upset DS (i.e. more than gentle protest) seemed to trigger more clinginess and set back our progress so slowly was definitely better. Good luck - I vividly remember the exhaustion and despair and often thought that I would love to give sleep training a go but knew I was far too exhausted to follow through so had to focus on getting through the next night as best we could.

Coming in to give some empathy, though it's a bit too long ago for me to offer practical suggestions. One thing I remember from some point around your child's age was that he had ongoing slow grumble-pain from teething, he felt only boob helped. Baby ibuprofen was the key to him sleeping through on those nights, which could go on for weeks, then he'd be fine without... And then another tooth, so ibuprofen to make him leave me alone. Some kids get sharp pain and shout one night then done, others are sloooow and drugs help. I also got very strict after age 1 that boob comes out of the mouth immediately feeding is finished; he liked to bury his head in my boobs to sleep anyway and that's fine as long as he was detached.

I didn't intend to give in. I endured mastitis and screaming for hours on end with two other children in an apartment block as I was so determined. My physical and mental health have started to suffer, my other kids were drawing pictures in school about how they weren't getting any sleep and I had to cope going back to work full time. I know she is confused but I didn't do it deliberately.

@Porridgeislife I'll keep it in mind but she doesn't fit the profile. It's worth remembering though thank you.
@NotCopingWell1 did you find the sleep training wasn't worth it?
@UnaOfStormhold I definitely think going back to work has been a big factor as she has been so clingy generally. I appreciate your empathy and nice to know others have been through it and came out alive!
@MRex did your baby protest much when you took the boob out of his mouth?

Thanks so much everyone. I know I've made a mess of this whole situation. I had a lie in this morning and baby is now asleep. She was whinging the whole time she was with my husband so I think she's still tired. Today is a new day.

@Softsoftsleep I'd say it was good. There was no crying it out, if she wanted me she had DH with her she wasn't alone. It wasn't a quick fix by any means it did take a few weeks but she coped with it reasonably well especially when I went cold turkey.

@Softsoftsleep - he did initially, but just got used to it being flipped out quite quickly. I'd let him relatch to eat a bit and then stop a few times, so he realised he was done rather than panicking. (Because it was a kind of sudden wild panic with him, like he'd been left in open grassland surrounded by lions and hyenas rather than asked to lie in mummy's arms just without a boob on the mouth.) I think the drugs made the most difference in transition to be honest, asleep is asleep and out of luck with protesting about boobs, then by the time he'd stopped teething he was used to it.

Sorry for the late response. I've started back to work full time and it has been a whirlwind.

Sadly, at the time that I was posting, I felt so guilty to have been night weaning that I reverted back to breastfeeding through the night. I felt a bit broken at the time and that I was a bad mother for depriving her or that contact with me at a time that was probably quite traumatic for her. I've decided to wait u til July to do it again and see it through.

But I'm exhausted. She has been up every 2 hours, awake about an hour each time. A month ago, she had been able to put herself to sleep and now she can't anymore. I've to get up for my full time job in 2 hours and I'm just so fed up.

I want to run away!

Pp said try to drop one feed at a time. We did this. Started with the 3:30am feed, gave a cuddle and put back down. Repeat. Gave all the other feeds at that time. Always fed him to sleep (independent getting to sleep came later).

The other thing that worked for us (but might not for you, as she seems like a determined feeder!) was 'le pause' from the book 'bringing up Bebe'

I.e when you hear them, just leave it 10 minutes to begin with in case they go back to sleep.

Thanks Aria. It's nice to advertise a bit of company. The dark bedroom feels a bit claustrophobic. Her feeds and night wakes are difficult to predict. Sometimes she will just wake up three times in the night. Other times it will be more but she will go over quickly. Sometimes like tonight it's every two hours. I've been up for 90 minutes now and she won't go to sleep. She just socks and socks and gets angry if I try to unlatch her and put her in the cot. She was howling the other night and my son came into the room and said 'please just feed her, Mum, I need to sleep!'

I just need to get to July when I can try again.

I can't believe I was so determined that I was on antibiotics for mastitis and now I'm back to square one of being Daisy the cow all night.

She's finally asleep and I've to get up in just over an hour 😩

If you're continuing to feed, then I think you must consider trying co-sleeping. I had a super clingy one, he simply wouldn't be put down alone, but in bed with me he would sleep through with one or both hands on me. I very quickly decided that I preferred sleep to pitching a battle over it.

Is she maybe hungry? I can usually get DS3 to sleep within about 10 minutes and since the last post he's now sleeping through some nights. Feeding for 90 mins each time sounds unsustainable for you. How's her food intake during the day?

It did get a little bit worse for us when he first started nursery but has improved again.

Now I've read back and remembered the rest of the thread, it sounds like the dairy issue might be worth looking at as well.

Have a look at feed sleep bond and their "holistic sleep coaches", it's an approach that looks at all aspects of sleep without sleep training being the solution.

I co sleep in absolute emergencies but I get such an awful night's sleep as she wants to be latched onto me all night, which ends up being quite painful. When I sleep separately, the shirt bursts of sleep I do get are very deep and much better quality, albeit pretty short lived.

@BertieBotts her food intake is generally fine during the day. I'd be surprised if it was a dairy thing but I am open to it. Thanks for replying.

Another night of baby's utter despair at being unlatched. My husband tried to settle her once I'd given her a good perfunctory feed and she howled so terribly that I took her back.

I WISH I had stuck with the sleep training back when I posted the original post. I let a few comments get into my head and I spiralled so far into guilt that things are now worse than ever. If I was fed up and running on empty before then now I just want to walk out the door and not come back. I'm sick of praying in the night for her to go back to sleep. The worst bit is that false sense that she is finally going over, when she spontaneously resurrects with more energy and determination than before.

I've been breastfeeding a 15 month old for the past HOUR! And this happens over and over during the night!

I haven't discounted all the advice here, but am just sounding off and need some empathy, please.

I feel for you, it sounds really hard. Presuming you tried ibuprofen / calpol for teething too. You've had all the suggestions, so you're going to have to trust your own judgement about what to do. Good luck!

No I haven't but keep remember to then forgetting as she never seems bothered by teeth during the day. Will try it tonight.

Sorry for the massive pity party last night! She was just so gorgeous this morning with her whispy blonde curls and big grin with her four teeth that my heart just melted and all was forgotten. This is only temporary and will pass one way or another.

Until tonight 🤪