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Original poster

Night weaning: all for nothing

102 replies

Softsoftsleep · 20/04/2023 23:59

Ive previously written about my utter exhaustion breastfeeding my 14 months old during the night. She ou knew how to fall asleep on the breast. I would co sleep to get some kind of semblance of sleep, but it was terrible; poor quality and claustrophobic. I do not want to co sleep anymore. Mumsnet and I agreed it was time to sleep train, especially as I was starting work soon.

3 weeks ago, I commenced the process, whereby instead of breastfeeding baby to sleep, I lay her down in her cot awake, over and over again, until she fell asleep. I shushed and patted her and never left her side. The first night it took her 2 hours to go to sleep and another 2 hours during the night, but it seemed to get shorter each night.

There were some dark moments where she fought it, and by stopping breastfeeding suddenly, I ended up with mastitis. However, my mind frame was that it would all be worth it in the end. There have definitely been some stretches in how long I sleep, but she is still fighting the initial put-down and is waking up. Offering water doesnt work, and baby was so distraught and for so long that we worried the neighbours would complain and that she was actually hungry. So I fed her. The same of deflation I felt when I finally gave in was just so...meh.

Same tonight. Took ages for her to go over, woke 30 minutes later, shushed her to sleep again, then 3 hours later, here I am breastfeeding her ad she was so hesitant to to even lying down when I went into her to settle her.

So now I feel like I've lost motivation for sticking with weaning as the baby has been so resistant to it and I have given confusing messages by giving in. It's hard to hold resolve when she has been crying for an hour and you've to get up for work in 2 hours, as us what has happened this week.

I thought 'no pain, no gain' but feel like I've gone back to square 1.

OP posts:
Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 22/04/2023 07:04

OK I'll try it from next week. Just means I only get to see her for 2 hours a day :-(

OP posts:
bowiesmum · 22/04/2023 07:46

I know it's hard but she will benefit so much for that sleep and also you can both have a less stressful bedtime. I'm sure she's exhausted come 7pm

BertieBotts · 22/04/2023 08:15

I actually think the narrative that sleep training only works if you're 100% making progress at all times, and that it's cruel/confusing if you go back and forth, and you're making it worse etc, is incredibly unhelpful and can be damaging.

In what other situation when you're training/learning something does it have to be all or nothing? If you're giving up smoking, and you slip up and have a cigarette, does that undo all of your progress and you might as well go back to smoking 20 a day? Of course it doesn't! Nobody would advise you that, they would say it's just a blip, you're doing really well, keep going, don't let it discourage you.

It's true that the method probably won't work in 3 days or whatever if you're making less consistent progress, but it DOES still work IME to reduce night wakings/reduce reliance on parental input at night. Just more slowly.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

1 year olds Babies & sleep Children's sleep Families
Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 22/04/2023 09:25

BertieBotts · 22/04/2023 08:15

I actually think the narrative that sleep training only works if you're 100% making progress at all times, and that it's cruel/confusing if you go back and forth, and you're making it worse etc, is incredibly unhelpful and can be damaging.

In what other situation when you're training/learning something does it have to be all or nothing? If you're giving up smoking, and you slip up and have a cigarette, does that undo all of your progress and you might as well go back to smoking 20 a day? Of course it doesn't! Nobody would advise you that, they would say it's just a blip, you're doing really well, keep going, don't let it discourage you.

It's true that the method probably won't work in 3 days or whatever if you're making less consistent progress, but it DOES still work IME to reduce night wakings/reduce reliance on parental input at night. Just more slowly.

This had made my day.
Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 22/04/2023 09:42

bowiesmum · 22/04/2023 07:46

I know it's hard but she will benefit so much for that sleep and also you can both have a less stressful bedtime. I'm sure she's exhausted come 7pm

The naps are in nursery and I don't have any say over them as they do them at a set time. To be honest, the baby is normally exhausted by 10am, due to partying the night before:-D
My husband wanted to try keeping her up a bit, as he thought it helped her sleep through previously but I agree with you that she's over tired by that stage. We tried it and it didn't work so going to try the earlier bedtime.

OP posts:
Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 22/04/2023 17:52

Right, baby slept for about 30 minutes in total today at around midday. She is in a good mood and I'm going to put her down at 7 so let's see how tonight goes!

OP posts:
bowiesmum · 22/04/2023 18:38

That's great, let us know how it goes!

Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 22/04/2023 18:41

Took 10 mins. Let's see!

OP posts:
Wishawisha · 22/04/2023 18:43

I stopped breastfeeding my DC much older than this (years older) but what I found was that even at 2.5 or 3.5 night weaning was useless unless I fully weaned. I introduced night weaning at an age so many would be horrified at (SO much older than your baby) but it meant morning went from 7am to 6 to 5 to … screaming and grabbing at me from 4am that it was the morning.
It being over 24/7 was the only way. But, as I say, my DC were older. And for what it’s worth - I went back to work full time feeding many (many!) times a night and it was ok. It doesn’t mean you have to stop it, I felt I got more sleep co-sleeping and feeding throughout but if you don’t, that’s fine.. my opinion is that night weaning is overrated and it’s weaning or nothing.

Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 22/04/2023 19:36

Wishawisha · 22/04/2023 18:43

I stopped breastfeeding my DC much older than this (years older) but what I found was that even at 2.5 or 3.5 night weaning was useless unless I fully weaned. I introduced night weaning at an age so many would be horrified at (SO much older than your baby) but it meant morning went from 7am to 6 to 5 to … screaming and grabbing at me from 4am that it was the morning.
It being over 24/7 was the only way. But, as I say, my DC were older. And for what it’s worth - I went back to work full time feeding many (many!) times a night and it was ok. It doesn’t mean you have to stop it, I felt I got more sleep co-sleeping and feeding throughout but if you don’t, that’s fine.. my opinion is that night weaning is overrated and it’s weaning or nothing.

Very interesting perspective, thank you for sharing. I have been considering quitting breastfeeding altogether but I'm not ready yet. It's so hard! Co sleeping is not a food option for me. I do want my space back.

Update is that she has woken twice since she went down an hour ago but a little pat of the bum did the job.

OP posts:
bowiesmum · 22/04/2023 19:44

Softsoftsleep · 22/04/2023 18:41

Took 10 mins. Let's see!

That's great, is bedtime normally much longer than that?

Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 22/04/2023 22:24

bowiesmum · 22/04/2023 19:44

That's great, is bedtime normally much longer than that?

Show quote history

Yes, around an hour of me asking her to.lie down, she lies down then stands up, over and over until she goes to sleep. Lots of patting and shusshing

OP posts:
Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 22/04/2023 22:26

She woke twice more but it was just a 'waaaah' then nothing else. Back over. I had a 2 hour block and woke for a drink of water, and she is still asleep. Woop!

OP posts:
bowiesmum · 22/04/2023 23:17

Amazing!!! It's so satisfying when you get a win! Hope the night goes well Flowers

Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 23/04/2023 02:50

A breastfeeding at 12.45 which dragged on as she cried each time she was u latched.1.15 I put her down. 1.45 awake.and patting and swishing worked. Just now, away but patting worked.

OP posts:
Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 23/04/2023 03:47

And we're up again. She was really upset so I've lifted her out and am breastfeeding her. My husband was out last night so isn't helping (he's sleeping on the sofa).

OP posts:
Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 23/04/2023 03:51

I think she has woken 7 times since I put her down at 7 last night. The only positives are that I sleep really well and quite deeply in between waking, which I wasn't getting when I was co sleeping. Sorry for all the messages, but I'm just documenting a typical night for my own reference as often the night is a blur.

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Polkadotpjs · 23/04/2023 04:11

I'm awake due to insomnia not babies but I absolutely feel for you. Neither of mine slept well and we tried all sorts but then tough love for us simply didn't work. Time, dummies and a lot of sharing the wake ups worked. It really does sound like progress however little the steps are and I get it that sticking to a plan where everyone is upset can be too much.
I used to be at work and cry as I was so tired and nobody "got" that it wasn't a feed then back to sleep but hours and hours of lost sleep.
It will be ok. We used a host of different dummies and found one he liked (painful to remove later but we got there after 2 nights ). Sending strength

Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 23/04/2023 05:08

Thank you Polka. It's so nice to get that empathy from others who have been through it. It's just brutal. I'm glad it all resolved itself for you and I can relate to the crying.

I'm up yet again. This time I've just brought her into the bed with me. I just don't know what else to do.

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Porridgeislife · 23/04/2023 05:48

I fully fully understand being so tired you want to vomit. No medical reason beyond being knackered. We weren’t clever enough to order the kind of baby that sleeps so I’ve had a few mornings like that recently!

It sounds like you’re doing a great job but she is still waking a lot so I’m wondering if there’s something else going on? Does she breathe through her mouth (day or night)? Low iron stores can also cause frequent wakes in babies.

https://heysleepybaby.com/blog/sleep-red-flags has a list of the red flags to look for.

Baby Sleep Red Flags — Hey, Sleepy Baby

Although we expect babies to wake frequently at night there are some things that could be cause for concern. Read more about hourly wakings and red flags to look out for.

https://heysleepybaby.com/blog/sleep-red-flags

bumpytrumpy · 23/04/2023 06:12

Have you considered intolerance to dairy or anything else?

Is she mucusy? Tummy issues?

Our sleep vastly improved when going dairy free.

Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 23/04/2023 06:42

Porridgeislife · 23/04/2023 05:48

I fully fully understand being so tired you want to vomit. No medical reason beyond being knackered. We weren’t clever enough to order the kind of baby that sleeps so I’ve had a few mornings like that recently!

It sounds like you’re doing a great job but she is still waking a lot so I’m wondering if there’s something else going on? Does she breathe through her mouth (day or night)? Low iron stores can also cause frequent wakes in babies.

https://heysleepybaby.com/blog/sleep-red-flags has a list of the red flags to look for.

Very, very interesting. I was anaemic during pregnancy and we weren't able to do cord clamping as she had to come out in a hurry and have medical attention as soon as she was born. I'm keeping this in mind. She is quite snuffly at the minute which could be something. Thank you for this

OP posts:
Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 23/04/2023 06:44

bumpytrumpy · 23/04/2023 06:12

Have you considered intolerance to dairy or anything else?

Is she mucusy? Tummy issues?

Our sleep vastly improved when going dairy free.

I never even thought of this. She doesn't have any other symptoms such as bad nappies or tummy pains etc. What should we look out for?

OP posts:
Original poster
Softsoftsleep · 23/04/2023 06:54

Last night was a kind of pre sleep training night. As I've reintroduced breastfeeding at night, she has gone back to more frequent wake ups, it seems. Knowing she can breastfeed and waking for it not just makes me more exhausted but clearly means that she has a much more disrupted and less restful sleep. I've been co sleeping for about 2 hours and have that horrible invaded feeling. I can't believe I've let things slide back to how they were, after everything.

OP posts:
Porridgeislife · 23/04/2023 06:59

@Softsoftsleep cutting out dairy and soy (for both of us) made a huge difference to my baby’s sleep recently. No obvious symptoms except for being a bit congested, plus the frequent night wakes.

It’s worth a go for 3 days or so to see if it helps.

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