Page 9 | Anyone watching the Grand National?

PinkLemonadee · 2023-04-15T16:06:50+00:00

Just put it on to see protesters being dragged off the track. Feel bad for the horses in the ring, it looks warm and there's so many people about.

SirChenjins · 15/04/2023 18:27

Florenz · 15/04/2023 18:23

I think horse racing is becoming more popular, not less popular. It's just the usual miserable people who are unhappy with life that don't like it. If horse racing was banned, they'd still be miserable and protesting against something else.

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And conversely, more people are challenging it. You are just going to have to get used to the idea that changes are coming - just in the way that people taking part in other sports that involve/d animal cruelty have to.

Prescottdanni123 · 15/04/2023 18:27

@ShowUs

There are other animal rights groups that take a stand against the grand national that you can support that don't use methods that put the animals or humans at risk.

I hate the grand national, but the protestors were being more than a bit silly today. Their actions were stupid and dangerous and could well have contributed to the falls that the horses suffered today. If they had been able to just run out onto the track, they could have got some of the horses or the jockeys killed or injured.

twistyizzy · 15/04/2023 18:27

Florenz · 15/04/2023 18:23

I think horse racing is becoming more popular, not less popular. It's just the usual miserable people who are unhappy with life that don't like it. If horse racing was banned, they'd still be miserable and protesting against something else.

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Nope it is people who genuinely care and horse welfare who are against racing. People who support racing obviously don't give a shit about the welfare of horses as long as they win money.
I know which side I would rather be on.
You come across as incredibly hard with zero fucks given about the welfare of these amazing animals. Supporting an industry where 100s of horses are killed on the tracks and 1000s are shipped abroad as live exports to go for meat and a miserable last few weeks of life.
Please do some research and educate yourself about the fate of many ex-racers and then come back here and say you support racing.

CremeEggThief · 15/04/2023 18:27

Well, Florenz, at least a few people on this thread who were into horse-racing have seen the light and changed their opinions.

Rhondaa · 15/04/2023 18:27

Enfys1982 · 15/04/2023 17:16

Two horses have already died this week at Aintree. One only this afternoon. It’s fucking cruel and people need to wake up. The irony of worrying about the horses in the paddock but being forced over Beachers Brook is laughable.

Yes those poor stressed horses having to wait 🙄. Let's crack the <padded, how lovely> whip and really stress them.

Animal cruelty needs to end. Good on the protestors for raising the profile and hopefully shaming the dressed up folk making money out of animals suffering.

Florenz · 15/04/2023 18:28

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 18:26

That makes 16 deaths since 2000 and 89 since it began
Cant believe I’ve had to revise the figure and add another.
What an absolute horrific thing for people to support.
Sick

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It began nearly 200 years ago. How many pigs, sheep and cows do you think are killed in the average abattoir every day?

Notanothernewname · 15/04/2023 18:29

Florenz · 15/04/2023 18:23

I think horse racing is becoming more popular, not less popular. It's just the usual miserable people who are unhappy with life that don't like it. If horse racing was banned, they'd still be miserable and protesting against something else.

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People go to the races to put on their nice frock and suit. They do it for a good day out, they know sod all about horse racing most of them. You go to a normal meet and it's actually really quiet.

Just look at Royal Ascot and what it's become, it's full of drunk chavs now (as seen by the states at Ascot train station).

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 18:29

Instructionmanual · 15/04/2023 18:26

I've been involved with horses all my life. My partner and I have 6 at the current time, two we bred ourselves.

What's wrong with racing?
Horses don't fully mature physically until they are 5, ideally 6 years old. (If you want a reference for that Google Dr Deb Bennett Ranger article). Racehorses are broken (I use the word advisedly) as two year olds. In fact, because their "official birthdays" are January 1st they can be younger than that. At that age the growth plates in their skeleton have not closed up. Physically they are not mature. We know not to over-exercise puppies, but it's OK with baby racehorses. They are so young they don't even have full tails.
Horses are naturally herd animals, needing physical company and contact with others, freedom to run and forage. Racehorses spend most, if not all of their day shut in the stable. Yes, by human terms they are treated like royalty - fed the best, washed and polished, given the right rugs and lovely bedding. By horse terms that's cruelty. Many respond by developing stable "vices" (in the zoos they call it zoochosis, but it a stable it's OK). They sway, lock their teeth on hard surfaces and gulp, they box walk... you get the picture. Often V shaped grills are put up at their doors to stop them swaying from foot to foot in the doorway (it's called weaving). Others are said to love their stables because they spend a lot of time sleeping or just standing - that's not love, that's shutdown. I've worked with a lot of ex racers, they all, literally all, had some sort of gut problems because of the stable stress and probably lack of movement and natural foraging. That means hind gut issues or ulcers. At the age of two maybe.
There is massive wastage in the racing industry. Just Google it for yourself. Wastage means dead horses, which can be before they even start training.
I heard someone on the radio saying the horse must love it or they wouldn't do it. That's bollocks, they do it because they've been trained to do it and are being pushed along by the jockey.
Someone else said they love it because if they lose their jockey they keep galloping and jumping. Racehorses in a race are operating in a state of high tension. When horses are stressed and adrenalin filled they crave the safety of the herd. So of course they keep running and jumping, they need to stay with the others. This is why we have seen racehorses desperately carrying on with a broken leg.
Of course the people who own and look after these animals love them. But if you truly love an animal then ignorance is no excuse for treating them like this. I often think that if horses vocalised in the same way that dogs do they wouldn't be subjected to half the crap that they are.
What happens when a racehorse retires? If they are lucky they end up being re-trained for regular riding and with a kind owner. Their dodgy guts are medicated. Their crap hooves are looked after properly and recover from their early shoeing and long periods stabled.
For others the picture is not so rosy. Even the Queen couldn't give a stuff about what happened to her horses after racing, unless they were being bred of course. It's know that one of her National winners was found abandoned in field in a sorry state. Another was discovered going through a French race followed by auction. That means the fast ones go on to keep racing, the others go for meat.
I do not agree with what the protesters did, but honestly something needs to be done to raise the standards of how horses are expected to be kept and used. Raising the age racehorses are allowed to race to maybe 4 years old would be a start. But their owners won't want to pay for their keep for that long.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue the toss about this. I know the next thing will be people piling in to say I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do. I did grunt work at a racing stable as a youngster, and thought it was wonderful. Education is a great thing and changed my view completely. Because I'm not going to argue about it, this will be another name change I guess. 😂

Well said @Instructionmanual
You clearly know what you’re talking about unlike so many here.
Hoping some of the MN here think again before they support such cruelty and educate themselves.

Enfys1982 · 15/04/2023 18:30

Nothing will change. Just look at demographic that are involved in the racing industry.

Rosula · 15/04/2023 18:30

Florenz · 15/04/2023 17:42

Congratulations to everyone that took part. It was a magnificent race.

Are you including in your congratulations the owners, trainers and rider of Hill Sixteen, which was put down after a pretty horrific fall?

twistyizzy · 15/04/2023 18:31

Florenz · 15/04/2023 18:28

It began nearly 200 years ago. How many pigs, sheep and cows do you think are killed in the average abattoir every day?

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@Florenz that's comparing apples and pears.

TwoCoffeesandAMilkshake · 15/04/2023 18:31

wormshuffled · 15/04/2023 17:21

@PinkLemonadee I've ridden horses, never owned one, there is a racing stable very close to my house and I don't deny that those horses and no doubt the horses that are currently being paraded around are well cared for.
This doesn't take away from my belief that whipping horses in order to make them run faster for the amusement of others and the financial gain of the bookmakers is cruel.

The ones that will make them money are well cared for. While they're making money.

The ones that could, but don’t make the grade can be rehomed with mental problems.

The ones that make money are retired (often with mental health and/ or physical problems from working too hard too young). They are sold on - not many have a happy retirement in a nice field somewhere.

The worst off that don’t make the grade may become dog meat.

Race horses are raced and retired before horses in other disciplines would even be sat upon. No other discipline would use and abuse youngsters like this.

I don’t agree with the way the protesters are protesting, but (as a rider and lover of horses), the racing industry is not all it seems. At all.

It's all about the money.

ThePreacherLikesTheCold · 15/04/2023 18:32

The vast majority of them come home safe..

Exactly. Not ALL. Just the "vast majority". Blimey OP...

And your comparison to footballers earlier? Absolutely ridiculous. I cannot comprehend your reasoning at all.

ShowUs · 15/04/2023 18:32

Rosula · 15/04/2023 18:23

You might as well ask why people who hate dog fighting or bull fighting or cock-baiting or fox hunting "just don't watch, attend or bet on them". I hate cruelty to children, is it OK just so long as I'm not watching it happening?

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I completely agree.

No one who loves horses or animals would support it.

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 18:33

Florenz · 15/04/2023 18:28

It began nearly 200 years ago. How many pigs, sheep and cows do you think are killed in the average abattoir every day?

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I don’t support that either
The grand National started in 1839. Is it ok because it’s ‘only’. 88.
Would less than 200 be acceptable.
Should we put a figure on deaths and injuries and how much cruelty is acceptable.

CremeEggThief · 15/04/2023 18:33

Excellent post, Instructionmanual.👏

Florenz · 15/04/2023 18:33

Rosula · 15/04/2023 18:30

Are you including in your congratulations the owners, trainers and rider of Hill Sixteen, which was put down after a pretty horrific fall?

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It's a shame but at least he died doing something he loved. Unlike most other animals that die.

Americano75 · 15/04/2023 18:34

Thank goodness for an informed opinion @Instructionmanual as opposed to some of the other shite being spouted on this thread.

Enfys1982 · 15/04/2023 18:34

Something he loved?! Are you taking the piss @Florenz

ThisIsNotAmerican · 15/04/2023 18:35

Well said @Instructionmanual
You clearly know what you’re talking about unlike so many here.

Except that the Queen never had a Grand National winner.

There is a big difference between flat racing and national hunt racing.

Radi0noise · 15/04/2023 18:35

It's a shame but at least he died doing something he loved. Unlike most other animals that die

😂🤣😂

danadas · 15/04/2023 18:36

I love NH racing, eventing and show jumping in particular at all levels. I attend as many of these events as I can including Aintree. I don't bet so it isn't about 'the money' but I love watching horses in sport. Each of these sports and activities should strive to make their events or leisure as safe as possible but they will never be risk free and as a result horses will die as a direct result. I am OK with that. Other people aren't and I get that. I completely see the side of the people who don't agree with using horses for pleasure or sport at all - that makes sense to me.

What I can't get my head around is those that are OK with some deaths but not others - what's the distinction? Horse killed in the Grand National bad, horse killed on the roads, in the arena or around a course acceptable?

twistyizzy · 15/04/2023 18:36

Florenz · 15/04/2023 18:33

It's a shame but at least he died doing something he loved. Unlike most other animals that die.

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Horses don't love to race FFS.They are prey animals so don't put up a fight.
Please educate yourself about horse psychology and welfare and then come back to justify racing.

Seaweasel · 15/04/2023 18:37

ZeroPlastic · 15/04/2023 17:57

I’m a horsey person, grew up with horses and used to love racing. I’m starting to feel it’s not right and that I don’t want to have any involvement any more. Had a bet today but felt a bit sick actually watching the race. My last time, I think.

That’s not to say that racing would be the first thing I’d choose to ban- factory farming, say, is much crueller. But that’s not an argument to keep supporting racing.

I agree entirely. I'm in a similar position to you with regard to background, but I think The National's days are numbered, and rightly so. Anyone who knows anything about horses knows that the race is problematic.

Hellsmovie · 15/04/2023 18:37

Did anyone else place a winning bet?