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Original poster

Biden's Irish ancestry

151 replies

prussianqueen · 14/04/2023 22:56

Been watching Joe Biden's Ireland visit and can see how moved and genuinely loving his trip he is. He is absolutely buzzing about his visit and his Irish roots. Also very sad to see him reflecting on the death of his children.

However... I was then very surprised to read that it is Biden's great grandfather who came from Ireland! The way he talks about his Irish heritage I'd assumed it was his mother, not 4 generations back.

My great grandmother fled persecution from another country but I almost never think about myself as having any ties there.

Do you think it's just the American Irish settlers thing? Is it particularly Irish - eg history of potato famine etc? (Biden has English roots too which he never mentions - don't really blame him)!

Basically is it only those with Irish ancestry who feel tied to it, or do people feel as connected to their heritage if their great grandparents came from somewhere other than Ireland?

OP posts:
KnickerlessParsons · 17/04/2023 12:16

Those people died a very long time ago. Their descendents are not Irish for evermore.

I agree. Joe Biden wouldn't be entitled to an Irish passport even, or to play sport for Ireland, the link is so far back.

I wonder who he'd support in an Ireland/USA football match.

davegrohll · 17/04/2023 12:20

@belleager thanks that's very kind, I did know and actually sent off for all the documentation etc I've just never done it! I understand there is a big backlog ?
I do feel abit of a cheat though doing it, would I be classed as Irish enough with a half Irish father ? I've said myself I think Biden milks it a bit so wouldn't want to be a hypocrite !!

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 17/04/2023 12:22

KnickerlessParsons · 17/04/2023 12:16

Those people died a very long time ago. Their descendents are not Irish for evermore.

I agree. Joe Biden wouldn't be entitled to an Irish passport even, or to play sport for Ireland, the link is so far back.

I wonder who he'd support in an Ireland/USA football match.

Biden is only one step away from the passport so considerably closer than any of the other presidents have been with their links.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Families Politics
CossyBunt · 17/04/2023 12:29

I don't think it's offensive. Biden's speeches in Ireland were heartfelt and authentic. He was honouring his Irish roots, his ancestral homeland and who he is, ( in the here and now - an Irish American). You do not get to dictate how a person defines their heritage, that's really arrogant. I'm guessing none of your ancestors had to flee persecution, war, or were enslaved and were forced to settle in another part of the world?

I hold the view that a person is made up of their past, their present and their future. All of it shapes us.

postapesto · 17/04/2023 12:30

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 17/04/2023 12:22

Biden is only one step away from the passport so considerably closer than any of the other presidents have been with their links.

Show quote history

Really? Closer than any of the 23 US presidents with Irish heritage? Andrew Jackson was born 2 years after his parents emigrated, that seems closer. James Buchanan, both parents emigrated from Ireland four years before he was born. Chester A Arthur, Irish father. Andrew johnson, Grover Cleveland McKinley, Irish grandfathers, ...

Literally half the US presidents have Irish heritage.

postapesto · 17/04/2023 12:30

CossyBunt · 17/04/2023 12:29

I don't think it's offensive. Biden's speeches in Ireland were heartfelt and authentic. He was honouring his Irish roots, his ancestral homeland and who he is, ( in the here and now - an Irish American). You do not get to dictate how a person defines their heritage, that's really arrogant. I'm guessing none of your ancestors had to flee persecution, war, or were enslaved and were forced to settle in another part of the world?

I hold the view that a person is made up of their past, their present and their future. All of it shapes us.

Are you seriously saying that to Irish people? Really?

CossyBunt · 17/04/2023 12:34

I'm saying it to you Postapesto

TrashyPanda · 17/04/2023 12:35
  • learning about Irish history which is ignored in U.K. curriculum

You are ignoring the fact there is no such thing as a “UK curriculum”

Scotland has its own education system and there is no prescriptive national curriculum of specific subjects

postapesto · 17/04/2023 12:37

CossyBunt · 17/04/2023 12:34

I'm saying it to you Postapesto

You're saying I'm guessing none of your ancestors had to flee persecution, war, or were enslaved and were forced to settle in another part of the world? to an Irish person?

You sure?

CossyBunt · 17/04/2023 12:46

I don't know anything about you, hence I asked the question. You seem offended that Biden is calling himself Irish and you are saying that he doesn't have the RIGHT to. How dare you? Who are you to tell someone how they should define themself? Where is your empathy and understanding of another persons viewpoint? Where is the respect for another?

postapesto · 17/04/2023 12:52

CossyBunt · 17/04/2023 12:46

I don't know anything about you, hence I asked the question. You seem offended that Biden is calling himself Irish and you are saying that he doesn't have the RIGHT to. How dare you? Who are you to tell someone how they should define themself? Where is your empathy and understanding of another persons viewpoint? Where is the respect for another?

Are you serious? How dare I? Everyone has the right to identify as they like, no matter if it's true or not...that's your point? So Rachel Dolezal was just fine identifying as African-American, was she? Isla Bryan was just fine too?

You cannot identify as anything you like, when you are not that thing. Where's your respect for literally everyone else?

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 17/04/2023 12:56

postapesto · 17/04/2023 12:30

Really? Closer than any of the 23 US presidents with Irish heritage? Andrew Jackson was born 2 years after his parents emigrated, that seems closer. James Buchanan, both parents emigrated from Ireland four years before he was born. Chester A Arthur, Irish father. Andrew johnson, Grover Cleveland McKinley, Irish grandfathers, ...

Literally half the US presidents have Irish heritage.

Show quote history

I missed the world recent from my post

CossyBunt · 17/04/2023 13:03

I find it hugely offensive that you think you have the right to tell another person what their nationality is, (or isn't) and to question their heritage.
Your arrogance is staggering.

postapesto · 17/04/2023 13:10

CossyBunt · 17/04/2023 13:03

I find it hugely offensive that you think you have the right to tell another person what their nationality is, (or isn't) and to question their heritage.
Your arrogance is staggering.

I do have the right to tell people what their nationality is or is not, since its an observable fact. We all do. Biden is not Irish. I am. He already knows he does not have Irish nationality, so don't you be worrying that he will be terribly offended by me stating a fact that he already knows!

Tessisme · 17/04/2023 14:59

Completely irrelevant to this thread, but I love your username @KnickerlessParsons😃

KnickerlessParsons · 17/04/2023 20:45

Tessisme · 17/04/2023 14:59

Completely irrelevant to this thread, but I love your username @KnickerlessParsons😃

😁thank you. 🙏

Whenharrymetsmelly · 17/04/2023 22:02

postapesto · 17/04/2023 13:10

I do have the right to tell people what their nationality is or is not, since its an observable fact. We all do. Biden is not Irish. I am. He already knows he does not have Irish nationality, so don't you be worrying that he will be terribly offended by me stating a fact that he already knows!

Show quote history

PP have said he grew up in an Irish community, etc etc. although I'm not interested in Biden specifically but the wider discussion.
Would you also do this to someone who was Chinese? If they had a great grandparent who was Chinese? Cook and Eat Chinese food, speaks Chinese etc. Would you tell them that they weren't allowed to identify with being part Chinese? Because if you think that you are incredibly ignorant and offensive to millions of people who are from migrant families all over the world.
Or if it only applies to British people, are you saying it's because British have no culture? Trying to understand the distinction.

mathanxiety · 19/04/2023 00:52

postapesto · 17/04/2023 13:10

I do have the right to tell people what their nationality is or is not, since its an observable fact. We all do. Biden is not Irish. I am. He already knows he does not have Irish nationality, so don't you be worrying that he will be terribly offended by me stating a fact that he already knows!

Show quote history

I don't think you have the right to tell people what their nationality is, and actually, I think doing so would be a pretty crass case of telling them the bleeding obvious. Why would you think this necessary?

Biden wouldn't be president if he weren't American (there are laws relating to this). He probably knows he's American by nationality 🙂

He is, as far as he's concerned, Irish American, and he has the right to feel that way, while you don't have the right to disagree. The degree of Irishness he feels deep down inside isn't for you to quibble with.

I am Irish too, btw - whatever 'Irish' means. I was born and brought up in Ireland, and educated there, to parents born and brought up and educated there, and so on back in time. I have some English and some Scottish ancestors, and some who were born in Canada and South America, all firmly established in Ireland before 1900, well before 1900 in some cases.

mathanxiety · 19/04/2023 00:59

Are you serious? How dare I? Everyone has the right to identify as they like, no matter if it's true or not...that's your point? So Rachel Dolezal was just fine identifying as African-American, was she? Isla Bryan was just fine too?

You cannot identify as anything you like, when you are not that thing.

@postapesto
That's a reductio ad absurdum of massive proportions, not an argument.

Dolezal and Bryson were verifiably not who or what they said they were.

If you think national identity is as cut and dried as those cases, you're using far too narrow a definition. I don't know why you would do this in an age of immigration, refugees, and issues surrounding human and civil rights. You're on a slippery slope here.

AliceOlive · 19/04/2023 01:19

Not sure why the link has a different headline:

”Biden Had Said He Worked the Coal Mines, Was Shot at in Iraq, and Marched in the Civil Rights Movement. He Has Not Done Those Things”

Don’t get to het up about this Irish thing. Americans certainly don’t seem to care what he says. 🤣

Tessisme · 19/04/2023 08:26

Maybe some people need to learn tolerance and accept that a person's upbringing and cultural experiences play a huge part in who they are as a person. I'm in NI and, as is well known, national identity is a very contentious issue. There are people marching up and down here every summer declaring how very UN-Irish they are - nope, they are British. That's how they've been brought up and that's how they feel. I, for one, am not about to argue with them😅 In fact, I was raised in that community and, guess what, I don't feel like them at all. I'm allowed to feel British, Irish or Northern Irish - all three if I fancy it! It's not all about what slice of the earth you were born on. It's much richer and more complex than that.

CossyBunt · 19/04/2023 09:37

Tessisme · 19/04/2023 08:26

Maybe some people need to learn tolerance and accept that a person's upbringing and cultural experiences play a huge part in who they are as a person. I'm in NI and, as is well known, national identity is a very contentious issue. There are people marching up and down here every summer declaring how very UN-Irish they are - nope, they are British. That's how they've been brought up and that's how they feel. I, for one, am not about to argue with them😅 In fact, I was raised in that community and, guess what, I don't feel like them at all. I'm allowed to feel British, Irish or Northern Irish - all three if I fancy it! It's not all about what slice of the earth you were born on. It's much richer and more complex than that.

Agreed. It's a multi faceted and complex thing and who are we to tell others who they are?

This is actually a very goady thread and I'd question the OP's intentions.

saltysweet · 19/04/2023 12:13

CossyBunt · 17/04/2023 12:29

I don't think it's offensive. Biden's speeches in Ireland were heartfelt and authentic. He was honouring his Irish roots, his ancestral homeland and who he is, ( in the here and now - an Irish American). You do not get to dictate how a person defines their heritage, that's really arrogant. I'm guessing none of your ancestors had to flee persecution, war, or were enslaved and were forced to settle in another part of the world?

I hold the view that a person is made up of their past, their present and their future. All of it shapes us.

I'm guessing none of your ancestors had to flee persecution, war, or were enslaved and were forced to settle in another part of the world?

Tbf isn't it Irish people themselves who find it the most daft, like when the American is 8 generations removed or something (a common scenario)? Among my friends at least. Though there are others who equally don't care. I personally don't think it hurts because these Americans are clearly searching for an identity, so live and let live