Biden's Irish ancestry

[prussianqueen]

Been watching Joe Biden's Ireland visit and can see how moved and genuinely loving his trip he is. He is absolutely buzzing about his visit and his Irish roots. Also very sad to see him reflecting on the death of his children.

However... I was then very surprised to read that it is Biden's great grandfather who came from Ireland! The way he talks about his Irish heritage I'd assumed it was his mother, not 4 generations back.

My great grandmother fled persecution from another country but I almost never think about myself as having any ties there.

Do you think it's just the American Irish settlers thing? Is it particularly Irish - eg history of potato famine etc? (Biden has English roots too which he never mentions - don't really blame him)!

Basically is it only those with Irish ancestry who feel tied to it, or do people feel as connected to their heritage if their great grandparents came from somewhere other than Ireland?

One great-grandparent? He's as Irish as I am then.

What makes me uncomfortable about this is linking national identity to blood / DNA, when we have a generation of New Irish who don’t have that link but have a much better understanding of what life in Ireland in 2023 means.

Why does it have to be so cut and dried? Why should an understanding of life in Ireland in 2023 be the marker of how Irish a person is? Feeling the pull of 'blood' is very real for some people, particularly for those from communities that have sought to keep their cultural heritage alive. It doesn't have to, and indeed shouldn't, negate or even lessen the Irish identity of newcomers who have made Ireland their home.

Whether you like it or not

Excellent post, @lljkk

......
The dog in the manger attitude on these Biden/ Irish threads is quite a thing to behold.

It's interesting to see the persistence of the 'Special Relationship' myth so long after it was ripped to shreds back in the 60s. It was limping along, a nice consolation prize for the British national imagination after being eclipsed by the US in WW2, but post Brexit it is truly dead as a dodo. Clearly it's going to take a while for that reality to sink in.

Ireland remains in the EU and has always had strong links to the US on many different levels.

I’m Irish, born and bred in Dublin. I like that’s he’s so proud of his ancestry….it’s also not a new thing with him, just to get votes.
What does annoy me is the number of people who say they have Irish ancestry but don’t care, or don’t know anything about us….but have no problem looking for Irish passports since Brexit.

Again, God forbid anyone should poke the DUP bear. It's almost as if we should be afraid of them. What are they going to do if the reminder that they live on a wider island annoys them too much? Call out their paramilitary wing?

They represent a minority of NI's electorate and their disproportionate influence on NI politics is thanks entirely to the support of the unionist charlatans of the Conservative and Unionist Party, who were recently foiled in their attempt to destroy the GFA.

The purpose of the Biden visit was to remind that small and vocal and utterly unprincipled section of the Tories that the US has a vested interest in the GFA, which it brokered, and to remind them that they cannot run roughshod over international agreements which the UK signed.

Hence the emphasis of the president on his personal connection to Ireland, his personal interest in Ireland, and to the GFA, all of which translates as the determination of the American administration to back the GFA to the hilt. The president's comments are his way of handing Boris Johnson's ass to him on a plate.

No wonder the DUP are alarmed. They should be. They have painted themselves into a militant corner, in cahoots with the Tory charlatan cabal, and now find pointed comments aimed at them by the American president reminding them that the GFA is something they cannot ignore or trample over.

Interesting article from David McWilliams in today’s Irish Times outlining why attitudes like Firstfallopians are a bit shortsighted…

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/04/15/ireland-should-be-more-like-israel-when-it-comes-to-soft-power/

The diaspora is our huge untapped world force – and yet what do we do for them? We know what they do for us – the list of positive contributions in the area of Irish economic, investment and politics from our American cousins is embarrassingly long – but what do we give them in return?
……

In the 21st century, the country with the best network wins. We have the network of tens of millions who live outside but feel Irish. We have the recharging battery: the country itself. Think about all the brains, talent, education, contacts and experience in this global Irish tribe. Bring them home, let them have fun, let them go back out into the world and see what happens. No one loses and the upshot – the soft power potency – is enormous.
^^
The new economy lives in people’s imaginations, people’s experiences; it is no longer what we pull out of the ground but what we make up in our heads. Identity is part of that intoxicating mix, and global Irishness has the capacity to be the greatest advantage of 21st-century Ireland.

Agree with this 100%!

I’m Irish but grew up in another country (not UK) in a very expat community where everyone I knew was not from the country where we were living. All of our family friends were Irish, my parents ensured that we knew we were Irish. I was big into Irish music as a teen. We always celebrated St Patrick’s Day etc. me and my siblings all have Irish names. I most certainly feel Irish.

I now live the UK, my DH is British. My children have both passports. But I find it much harder to try to make them feel ‘Irish’, I don’t know any other Irish people where we live. We do spend a lot of time in Ireland though and my children have Irish names.

I think it’s a bit of a shame a lot of English aren’t proud of their Irish roots. I do suspect this is related to anti-Irish/ anti-Catholic sentiment in the past. I remember seeing Paul Merton on Who Do You Think You Are, and he said something like “When I’m in Ireland I feel Irish in a way I never feel English”. I think that’s lovely.

I think it’s wonderful that Joe Biden is so proud of his Irish ancestry - why the hell not.

My grandad was Irish, came over from Dublin and met my nan. That makes me 1/4 I think? Never been to Ireland but would like too. I do think Biden milks it abit - I do agree Americans seem to grasp onto the Irish American thing, Italian american etc more than other countries

I have recently found cousins in Australia. Their great grandfather was my mum's uncle. My mum is still alive and was thrilled I found these cousins. They very much feel that they are irish, and related to us. I am hoping to visit them at some point, sadly my mum won't ever meet them. I think it's very easy to sneer at Biden and others with Irish roots that go quite far back, but these things are important to some people.

I think it depends on how you were raised. From what I've read recently, his mother identified fiercely with her Irish heritage i.e. sleeping on the floor rather in a bed that the queen had slept in - her small protest against British rule I guess. I was born in the UK of Irish parents but me and my siblings were immersed in Irish culture from the get-go. Our parents played Irish music, all of their friends were Irish, we went to a Catholic school where almost all the other kids came from Irish families who also immersed them in Irish culture and as soon as they summer holidays came round we were driven to Ireland for weeks with our grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins (we were the only ones in England). As a result of all that, I identify strongly with Ireland and although I always records myself as British on forms etc and lead an entirely British life, my friends see me as Irish, bringing up my heritage more than me. That's maybe because I still go there every year, absolutely love the place, my son also loves it as well, and with a couple of my siblings we bought the old family home (total wreck but still). If it's England versus Ireland in any sport, I always route for Ireland as does my son. If I hadn't been brought up the way I had, I wouldn't be like I am now, and I'm passing it on to my son, just in the way, I imagine happened with Biden.

Hey, Barack Obama Plaza is not just a service station!!

It's really interesting to hear this. I was talking to my sister a month or so ago about the term 'plastic paddy' - can't remember why now. We looked it up and were quite shocked to find, as part of the discussion on this, that it tended to be used by the Irish (born and bred) who despised those who were Irish descent (even 1st generation not Irish born) but who went on about being Irish/embraced Irish traditions/were proud of their heritage. I found it so off-putting. For the record, I love my Irish heritage and the fact that my DNA is 100% Irish!

I think it's a mutually beneficial connection.

Irish ancestry is useful for US politicians and Ireland benefits hugely from the relationship, both in terms of tourism and in encouraging US companies to headquarter in Dublin and pay CT.

I think its great that he keeps telling us how being in Ireland makes him happy because it's the first time in months that I have confidence that he knows where he is.

All my family back home (Ballina, Castlebar) are beyond delighted that Biden visited and feel it has really put Mayo on the map.

All we have heard is how "Monsignor Horan will be smiling down from heaven now AF1 has landed at Knock" and lots of them went to St Muredach's last night, but IME the Irish as a nation are welcoming and hospitable so why wouldn't he be thrilled to be back and renew his connections.

He is fetishising his ancestry in order to win votes back home. Nasty, dangerous, doddery old man.

According to ancestry I'm 37% Irish when I expect about 25% due to my grandad being from Ulster.

I feel a connection because I've always been aware I had some Irish roots,

However turns out I'm also 21% Scottish and I feel zero affiliation because I don't know where it comes from.

Also 11% Welsh which was unexpected but pleased by as I'm not far from Wales and love the place and the people.

I'm more all of these other nationalities than the one I identify as which is English.

I think Biden and his like want some history to cling onto to give them a sense of belonging. In his case he's picking and choosing which history he prefers as he's more English than Irish.

I read that Biden grew up surrounded by Irish Americans.
This would naturally keep your heritage alive.
Those in the UK with Irish or other nationality parents, did you grow up around similar people or just among people from different backgrounds?
I don't think it's just an American thing, but I think it is something that people who grow up in an environment with people of similar backgrounds feel more.
I'm Irish and I think my DC felt Irish when they were younger as they had the best holidays there but these days, they are English. Apart from their EU passports.

Hope you know that if your grandad was born in Ireland, you can become an Irish citizen and get an Irish passport (as well as keeping British passport / citizenship). You don't even need to visit, though you'd be very welcome. It's a very useful thing to have!

Agree!

A true Irish person? People had to flee Ireland, through not fault of their own, to survive. Those people would not have forgotten their roots or their heritage as they created new lives in the countries they settled in. Yours is an interesting view.

Those people died a very long time ago. Their descendents are not Irish for evermore.

That's your view. I disagree. I feel it would be hugely disrespectful to my ancestors who had to flee persecution, if I were to deny my heritage and cultural roots. I'm proud of my heritage and through stories and information passed down through the generations, I am fully aware of the struggle and pain and it must never be forgotten.
Each to their own, though.

You don't have to deny your cultural roots. You just have to not pretend to be something you are not.
Americans claiming to be Irish because one, or even lots, of their 100plus however many great great granparents were Irish, 200 years ago, is as stupid as it is borderline offensive.