Biden's Irish ancestry

[prussianqueen]

Been watching Joe Biden's Ireland visit and can see how moved and genuinely loving his trip he is. He is absolutely buzzing about his visit and his Irish roots. Also very sad to see him reflecting on the death of his children.

However... I was then very surprised to read that it is Biden's great grandfather who came from Ireland! The way he talks about his Irish heritage I'd assumed it was his mother, not 4 generations back.

My great grandmother fled persecution from another country but I almost never think about myself as having any ties there.

Do you think it's just the American Irish settlers thing? Is it particularly Irish - eg history of potato famine etc? (Biden has English roots too which he never mentions - don't really blame him)!

Basically is it only those with Irish ancestry who feel tied to it, or do people feel as connected to their heritage if their great grandparents came from somewhere other than Ireland?

My grandparents were refugees from a country at war with others and also fighting within their own people due to political differences and massive amounts of stomach turning atrocities occurred. My Father was an immigrant to the UK. He had relatives die and they lost their home and all their land, they had been quite wealthy. I have never even set foot in that country. I feel my heritage plus the racists at school never let me forget.

I’m Irish and I have no problem with Biden being proud of and embracing his Irish heritage. It’s been a wonderful few days for Ireland and it’s nice to see someone whose family left many generations ago be so proud of his roots. He says he is Irish American - he’s not claiming to be from Ireland as he isn’t. But he grew up immersed in Irish culture and traditions and a love of his heritage was clearly instilled in him by his mother and grandparents so I think it’s lovely to see how much she and previous generations cared about Ireland.

I think a lot of people forget that most of these Irish American families were forced to leave Ireland to survive - it was this or starve to death. Even post famine Irish people emigrated in desperation and search of a better life - so they didn’t want to go and they wanted to bring their children and grandchildren up with a pride in and understanding of their heritage and to actively keep that part of them alive. That’s different to moving country and just settling into the new country and not placing value on roots as some posters have described ie my dad is Irish I don’t identify as Irish as I grew up in U.K.

I think it’s more an American thing. My GG parents emigrated from west Cork in Ireland to Australia shortly after the famine. Their son, my G-grandfather benefited from a good education from the Christian Brothers and after a good career became an MP. He wouldn’t have had that opportunity in Ireland.

I don’t find my Australian relatives identify as Irish in the same way as Biden, they are happy to be Australian while interested in genealogy.

My husband is Irish and mocks the plastic paddy people. I actually have more Irish DNA than my husband despite being ‘English’.

It’s so interesting how little understanding of immigrant/emigrant communities people have… It was always a lot more difficult being proud to be Irish in England than anywhere else, especially pre GFA, and in my experience living in many countries, the only place where I’ve received anti Irish comments and pisstaking is there. So I’m not surprised many English with Irish ancestors found their families preferred to blend in than make a thing about being Irish.

And those who stay in a country can also find the emigrant experience weird - when I worked in London and second generation Irish claimed to be Irish I didn’t recognize it. But now I have kids of my own growing up in a different culture I have a lot more understanding - my kids spend holidays back “home”, we bore them with Irish traditions, cook Irish food, encourage them to watch Irish films and programmes and our home life is Irish, even as we encourage them to integrate in their birth country. And they have many friends from other immigrant backgrounds with similar home lives. Of course they are a different kind of Irish to kids born and bred on the island but they are entitled to consider themselves Irish.

The concept of the Irish diaspora is leveraged plenty by people living in Ireland when it comes to inward investment and foreign affairs, and is part of the reason why Ireland often punches above its weight internationally in terms of awareness and reputation. In most countries being Irish generates positive reactions. Emigration is a huge part of what it means to be Irish. And in the US immigrant communities overall celebrate their ancestry, so Irish Americans like Biden have it from both sides.

You brought it up! This is a public forum and you’ve been asked a question about a statement you’ve made. My guess is that you can’t answer it and that’s why you’re carrying on like this.

This is a really good response and I agree.

@WhatAmIDoingWrong123 I don’t understand why it’s not clear what that poster meant? How to bring up her children Irish - off the top of my head

• learning about Irish history which is ignored in U.K. curriculum
• learning Irish music
• learning Irish and Ceili dancing
• learning about Irish poets and Irish literature (Biden’s favourite poets are Irish)
• learning the Irish language or sending children to Gaeltacht for summer
• learning how to play Irish sports

Apologies if I'm repeating but just to say the term 'Potato Famine' is a misnomer and not deemed appropriate or historically accurate in Ireland. Agree with pps, it's an American thing. Lovely to see him so happy and genuinely moved.

People saying it's an American thing are being so ignorant. Most people do this when they aren't native to the country they live in, yes they might be from the country they're born in but they also usually understand their ancestry and are often proud of it. It's not just an American thing at all 😒

Niall horan has a great interview on this, everyone he meets is Irish.

I was born in Ireland but adopted to England. When I go to Ireland I feel 'home'. I know how wanky that sounds.

I'm Irish and living in U.K.

I happened to be home for Bidens trip. It was great! No he is not insulting us Irish with his irishness. I am from Dublin but my family is all West of Ireland. We share at least three surnames with Biden, so we've decided we are also distant cousins

My mum, from Mayo really enjoyed watching it.

I'm glad to see Joe embrace his heritage. Belonging is a state of mind.

@Anyfeckinusername I would’ve loved to have gone to see him but unfortunately am too far away with a young baby! I heard it was electric!

the vast majority of people in Ireland have embraced and enjoyed his visit. The anti Irish sentiment from the U.K. and the sneering at Biden and Ireland has been the only black mark.

Great post! Agree with all of it, I've felt this way too and noticed the same stuff.

Since having kids and now rearing them in England I've also changed how I see generations of Irish abroad. I've one born in Ireland, one born in England.

It's really not wanky at all. I'm third generation to a country I first went to when I was 7. I've been back twice more and each time I feel 'home'. My sister hates going there, even though she ended up marrying someone born there herself and holds onto those traditions and I don't. We are all different. All the judgemental comments on here are really quite sad, and I'm guessing the majority are people who are neither Irish or American. Sad that they feel so strongly about something that doesn't affect them at all. Fancy telling other people what is or not acceptable to think and feel about your own heritage, says more about them that it doesn't about anyone else.

Ahh! But you know, that's how you'll date his visit to Ireland forever - "wait now, DD wasn't even one so it must have been ... 2023!"

Just soaking up the atmosphere must have been amazing!

It seems a big thing for some Americans to refer to themselves as Irish American.

Two Gt Gt Grandmothers of mine were Irish and a gt gt Grandfather. I though am English, just like my parents, grandparents and great grandparents were.
I had a DNA test and show up as 15% Irish

OK first off, not condemning anyone identifying with their ancestry/heritage, but just noting differences. I do think it is an American thing.

For the UK – if racial minority, yes they would understandably identify with their ancestry. Again, very understandable.

But I feel like for "white" (e.g. Western/European European) people in the UK, you would only actively identify as having foreign ancestry/heritage if it's a really recent connection, within 3 generations. So if your grandparents or parents were actual foreign immigrants. If it goes back any further, I don't think they would really.

I have lots of American friends who trumpet about their 0.01% or 2% or 10% foreign DNA or great great great great grandparent or whatever. But lots of (white) British people I know have very mixed DNA (some are less than 50% British in their DNA tests!), maybe 2% from bizarre parts of the world, and history, and they don't make a big deal – or any deal – out of it at all.

I don't think it's the immigrant nation connection. I'm actually from a very young immigrant nation myself (not in the UK), and we don't zone in on micro-specks of our genealogy to identify as that heritage. It does seem to be quite American.

That should have said, if visible racial minority (ie clearly not white)

5/8 of my great grandparents were Irish. Grew up in Liverpool where this is not unusual but we don't call ourselves Irish. I find Biden saying he is Irish irritating - presumably it captures the 'Irish-American' vote.

Right, this is appreciating Irish culture which is great, but it doesn’t mean that they’re rared as Irish, does it?

There’s kids growing up in Ireland at the moment who have never and will never be anywhere near a Gaeltacht, will never learn anymore Irish than how to ask permission to go to the toilet and whose own parents don’t care or aren’t able to introduce them to traditional music or dance. I don’t do most of that list with my own kids. Doesn’t make them any less Irish.

People can appreciate their heritage all they want- it enriches the places that their ancestors chose to call home when they emigrated.

What makes me uncomfortable about this is linking national identity to blood / DNA, when we have a generation of New Irish who don’t have that link but have a much better understanding of what life in Ireland in 2023 means.

Just because you don’t participate in Irish culture doesn’t mean it isn’t part of Irish culture and heritage. Just because there are new generations of Irish people living in Ireland who have immigrated here doesn’t mean others can’t appreciate their heritage or be proud of their DNA.

that poster also didn’t say rared as Irish she said she’s bringing them up irish. In the U.K. I think it’s fairly self explanatory she will be doing some or all of the above with her children that wouldn’t ordinarily be done by children growing up in the U.K. so much pickiness and policing of language these days on mumsnet and in general. 🙄

many English people in England have the exact same background

which as an American, I find intriguing and surprising. The quick ditching of parents' heritage if at all possible. Like you're ashamed or dual identity isn't allowed. But in USA... dual & multi-identity is positively celebrated. Polish-Jewish-Lebanese-Hawaiian-Somali-American? Bring it on. Why ever not? All those parts made us what we are today.

And the other aspect is how someone like me, an immigrant, I am not remotely allowed to call myself English while living in Britain. Even though I traced my family tree thoroughly. My ancestors were about 70% English. Most the rest were Scots or Irish. So I think I should be able to at least tick the "White British" box even though my last British born-ancestor left GB/UK/Ireland in 1850. But neah... that identity door is firmly shut. Because neither I nor my parents grew up in UK.

You lot just have a completely different idea how to define ethnic origin. Of course, if skin colour isn't peach-white, then I presume ethnic origin is allowed to persist down many generations after all in Britain.

ps: apparently 5/8 of Biden's G-grandparents were Irish born, he's actually the most Irish POTUS ever, I read.

It depends on the family and whether the relationships have been kept going down the generations,

@lljkk think it’s probably a lot to do with class.
working class Irish catholic has historically been very discriminated against in England. So if you wanted to get on you would hide that part. I’ve had relatives do exactly that.

you’d be surprised though- if you have Irish colouring you will still get asked where you are from. Had that a few times over the years.

I'm Irish and I have no problem whatsoever with Bidens Irishness, he can be whatever he wants to be and obviously it means a lot to him, plus if his visit here benefits us in terms of tourism etc then I'm all for it