Biden's Irish ancestry

[prussianqueen]

Been watching Joe Biden's Ireland visit and can see how moved and genuinely loving his trip he is. He is absolutely buzzing about his visit and his Irish roots. Also very sad to see him reflecting on the death of his children.

However... I was then very surprised to read that it is Biden's great grandfather who came from Ireland! The way he talks about his Irish heritage I'd assumed it was his mother, not 4 generations back.

My great grandmother fled persecution from another country but I almost never think about myself as having any ties there.

Do you think it's just the American Irish settlers thing? Is it particularly Irish - eg history of potato famine etc? (Biden has English roots too which he never mentions - don't really blame him)!

Basically is it only those with Irish ancestry who feel tied to it, or do people feel as connected to their heritage if their great grandparents came from somewhere other than Ireland?

You don't hear the term "English American" because the usual term is Anglo-American.

And as previous posters have mentioned many Americans do identify with their English heritage.

Many people left England for America due to the percussion they experienced in England. Therefore it would not have been the romanticism of the poor Irish immigrant who left because of the great Famine.
The English fought the new settlers in America (war of independence), therefore identifying as English or of English heritage would be considered anti American
In a country that has only been settled for a few hundred years people want to know where the "family line" came from.
Australia and New Zealand have the same traits just less vocal about it.

Biden was involved in the Good Friday Agreement, which to those in England, Scotland and Wales may not mean much but to us on both sides of the boarder on Ireland changed lives completely.
Gone are the days of watching the news every evening and scenes of murders, bombing and kidnapping, protests in prisons, summer being hell with parades on both sides turning to riots.
Both Ireland and Northern Ireland have developed and are tourist attractions in a way that never would have been possible without peace, as well as centres for academia that would never of attracted overseas talent if a civil war continued to rage.

🥁 🤔

You do realise different countries have different cultures don't you? Generally its people who have a set of common history, values and beliefs etc. Not everyone is the same of course, but there are certain commonalities, like a venn diagram if you will. When those people migrate, they generally take those beliefs and traditions with them and in turn raise their children that way. It's quite easy to "raise" a child in a specific way and not have to live in that country or even have lived in that country yourself. The children are lucky because they get to have "the best of both worlds". How else do you think people pass on traditions etc. What a bizarre statement!

I’m American and yes, we are quite interested in how our family got here. It’s weird that the English recognize how young our country is, our buildings, etc. but often fail to recognize the impact our ancestor’s immigration has on us. It wasn’t that long ago, in the scheme of things.

I have English ancestors and would love to know more about them, but it’s very difficult to trace them because their names are extremely common and they arrived long long before the Irish and the continental ancestors. Also, it’s a food thing. Do I need to elaborate?

That was all outside of the context of Biden’s visit, BTW.

Yes it is very American. Up to 30% of Australians report Irish ancestry, 10% officially identify as Irish, and overall probably much more than 30% (given context/history of Aus immigration) have Irish ancestry, but you don't see the Aussies being that obsessed with their "Irish heritage"

I’ve reported the incongruent posts ^^ for MNHQ to have a look at.

Yes, but many English people in England have the exact same background.

I don't know the actual numbers but I'd assume there are many more English people (like me) who descend from Irish families escaping the famine...

I'm Irish living in England, married to someone from a third country. I consider my children English, with influences from Ireland and their Dad's country. But the majority influence is England because that is where they are growing up. I think it's so individual. I work with a woman who grew up in Oz but parents are Greek and she spent a few years as a young child in Greece. She considers herself 100 % Greek. Who am I to tell her otherwise? Just as I don't think anyone should insist that my kids are Irish. People feel differently on this topic.

An american thing. In the 1980s I was a student staying with a friend at Georgetown University and was violently interrogated by a bunch of other students late one night (they'd had a few drinks) about the British position in Ireland. I tried to engage politely, and ended up asking about the level of their irishness. Turned out it was all grandparents or further back. I later worked in NI (before the GFA) and have to say I felt more unsafe that night than I ever did in Belfast!

😂😂

From what little i've seen of the bloke he would struggle to tell what planet he's on at the moment let alone where his great grandparents came from !

Considering the reason most people left Ireland to flee British persecution of one form or another

like the potato famine which was only a famine because the British exported the majority of the crops.

heritage is very important and most Brits don’t understand or accept their own counties Hertiage. My kids know more about Spanish history than the UK.

It’s funny because I’m Irish living in England up until Brexit my kids had only British passports and would have described themselves as English. Now though they both changed and describe themselves as Irish.

it’s funny

I'm not sure why people get so worked up about this. It doesn't make me any less Irish just because millions of Americans feel a strong connection with their Irish heritage. It's pathetic to start yakking on about them not having any real sense of modern Ireland. Why does that matter? In a country overwhelmingly comprised of the descendants of immigrants, it's hardly surprising they want to connect with their past. Let's face it, in the particular case of Irish Americans, many are descended from people who didn't want to leave Ireland, but were forced to because they were starving. It's not difficult to understand how anecdotes and memories, together with traditions and culture, would get handed down through generations, reinforcing a sense of community and belonging. Subsequent Irish immigrants, not driven out by starvation, would have set up home in areas comprised of other Irish settlers, further forging a specifically Irish sense of identity. And if Irish roots are used by American politicians to garner support, then perhaps it should serve as a reminder of how far the Irish have come, having been treated as third class nobodies for centuries by their invading rulers. People say stuff like 'everyone loves the Irish' - well, it wasn't always like that.

i agree. The way he talks about his Irish identities reminds me of my dm in her 80s who views Irish history through the lens of her parents experiences of the civil war and troubles throughout the 20th century. Difference being that she was was a lot closer to actual events so I’d argue has more of a right to be that way. It’s nostalgic and I’m not sure helpful for a US president to have irritated the dup more than they already were in this situation.

he’s mawkish over his ancestry. It’s not often I have sympathy with the dup but they hit the nail on the head with their assessment of him.

Yes, that's common knowledge and common sense, which I referenced in the post.

(That said re aboriginals – not sure if 100% relevant to Irish question – mass killings of aboriginals in Australia started and enforced by the Brits but the later inhabitants definitely continued that policy. America has its own ugly native genocide history too, overlapping with period of mass Irish immigration as well, albeit not sure how much perpetuated by the new immigrants!)

I also find it odd. Half of my great grandparents came from parts of Poland/Lithuania - basically all of my mum's grandparents. But we don't feel Polish in the least.

It's an American thing. Italian-American, Irish-American, African-American etc. We don't define ourselves in the same way here.

@Startwithamimosa actually your post is a bit confusing... I think one of the main reasons Auusies don't reference their Irish heritage is the criminal thing yes, but that's not really something to be ashamed of? "Criminal" is very loose... The English were brutal and discriminatory, and deported masses and mass of people for things like stealing bread (when it was the English causing starvation in Ireland by siphoning and taxing its crops to enrich England) and supporting popular rebellion against English rule.

As for treatment of Aboriginals being one of the reasons they don't reference their Irish heritage – don't think that makes sense. It would make more sense if they were ashamed to be Australian.

its definitely an American thing. I know proud Italian Americans who have to go back four generations to find an actual Italian. It seems to be a quite fundamental part of American identity.
I don’t see the problem with it?

I’m a born and bred Londoner with Irish parents and I feel Irish and English. We went ‘home’ to Ireland every year for the whole summer. I did Irish dancing and played Irish sports as a kid. Grew up in a very Irish enclave of London, so half the kids at school had Irish parents. Our social lives revolves around mixing with other Irish families at the Irish Centre or cultural events etc.

When we were in Ireland, though, all my cousins took the puss out of my cockney accent .

My dad’s great grandfather came to Liverpool from Ireland, dad would have been 80 now so same generation as Biden. Around 70% of scousers can trace their family back to Ireland and I’ve never met one who feels connected to their Irish heritage. The only clue with many are Irish surnames and some Catholic first names and even then, Catholic first names really died out in the 70’s Unlikely to find any Marie’s or Bernadette’s under the age of 50. My own family were Proddies mind!