DD has been dishonest for personal gain. What to do?

[leonairs]

DD is 15 and just sat a recent GCSE she's taken early

My ex has told me she's said to him her mental illness isn't real, and she will 'discontinue' the therapy after she's finished A Levels. This came about when I asked him to talk to her about why she wasn't taking her tablets, I'd caught her a few times having not taking them. The tablet is Risperidone so not a risk free drug!

To clarify, she gets extra time and a small % too, I believe, due to extenuating circumstances.

Ex has told me this has all been a lie to get extra marks. He was a 'crafty' younger man and DD thought she could tell him and he'd approve - This idea of being safe to tell him probably came from the many tales of his misspent youth!

He told me he didn't really know what to say and I should speak to her. Trouble is, I don't know what to say either and find it all very hard to unpick. It isn't something google will have an answer to.

It all seems very calculated.

For clarification, she's a bright student who is described as being very 'quick and intelligent' by her history teacher for example. She is popular, seems well liked

What can I do about this? Where do I start

If you recognise me then Pm me I beg you before you say anything

The term mental health is so general but having read your posts... I do believe what you are saying. A family member who am I close with has psychosis its not a straight forward condition so I can relate 100% to what you are saying OP. How many years has your DD had it?

Psychosis doesn't mean you don't have a natural personality. It's very unpredictable and it can be hidden well.... but when you know someone personally part of what the person is saying is very unrealistic or doesn't make any sense.

The part that I'm confused about is that you said your DD has made her mental health up OP. Do you have support? Psychosis won't of been diagnosed lightly at all it's really complex because sometimes you Absolutely can have "normal" conversations and other times not so much.

@leonairs have read all your posts. A call to the MH team is your best bet. Ask ex to talk to them too.

A 10 year old article published on what is effectively an anti-psychiatry website, discussing a 10 year old editorial in an American journal, doesn't say much about current clinical practice and standards within the UK today.

However, a debate about that doesn't really help the OP, so let's just agree to disagree and hopefully OP can speak with her daughter's (hopefully competent) mental health team.

I thought they only give you medication if your symptoms seriously affect your ‘daily living’ or something like that. If she was otherwise functioning completely normally why are they medicating her?

"Deemed safe in the community" - do
You mean she is not a danger to herself?

Surely the meds would have a side effect if she's faking something?

Off to Google....

She can be very nice so don't thing psychopathy at all but she is manipulative and very skilled at it, from a very early age she has been and just got better and better

This is pretty much the definition of a psychopath. Psychopaths are charming when they need to be. Otherwise they can’t manipulate people. If she is faking she clearly has a personality disorder of some sort, this is very not normal behaviour for a 15yr old

Anosognosia refers specifically to the lack of insight in severe mental illness or dementia. There’s also low key denial which anyone can have of physical or less serious mental health condition - because people feel ashamed of it, don’t want to deal with it, or it makes them feel more in control etc.

It's possible to take medication, if you have a psychosis, and get on with life. It can be a hidden illness.

Mental illness is on a spectrum - it just depends on the person suffering from it and what their symptoms can be. It can also taper off - everyone is different.

I'm sure you already knew this but does any of this fit?

Also, when I was diagnosed with Ptsd I was openly told his initial thoughts were one of 3. Ptsd, personality disorder or bi polar.

You can only voice your concerns to her consultant although they are highly likely not to engage with their thought given her age, but if they are baffled then it may help them.

I just used it as it had a clear table. I am happy to link articles from google scholar for you to support my assertion that psychiatric diagnosis is not an exact evidence based science. It has low interrater reliability, some psychiatrists have clear patterns of diagnosing, diagnostic creep happens and there are many other factors at play. Psychiatry does not have the objective measurements that many other fields have to back up their clinically informed but subjective assessments - that do rely heavily on patient self report and observation.

This point is important as the assertion that OP must be wrong because a diagnosis means that her daughter definitely has this illness is incorrect. Doctors don't always get it right.

Sadly I think there are many students, parents and schools that attempt to play this type of game so I would imagine that she has seen this type of behaviour from others. I know that this the awarding of extra time is more than ever being scrutinised due to the abuse of the system.

You are right that anosognosia is not the same as denial - but what people are describing here as a condition where the OPs daughter is unaware they are ill as a symptom of their illness is anosognosia - a lack of insight into or awarenss of one's own condition.

I don’t know that they are - they’re referring to DD’s claim in the OP that her illness “wasn’t real”. We have no means of knowing whether it’s true lack insight characteristic of serious mental illness, denial or indicates her illness is a lie.

It's actually quite common at the moment for teenagers to make up things like tourettes, suicide attempts etc. There are genuine MH trends. It's SO tricky because you can't throw accusations around because it is so sensitive, especially if you are the parent, even though the parent is most likely to know if it is genuine or not... As you can see from this post, so many people cant even believe the OP is questioning it.

I don't find it at all surprising that a teenager might try and pull a stunt like this. OP, can you speak to the psychiatrist without your DD present? Say that you have concerns it isn't genuine but don't want to accuse dd incase you are wrong. If they have the same suspicion maybe they can give her a placebo or monitor as an inpatient.

Because, from what I do know of psychosis, it can escalate and hearing voices is serious so they treat it quickly

If someone is saying they're distressed by voices, you won't leave them without meds will you?

If nothing else she has very low self esteem. Although I suspect that she may be saying this to her DDad because she might not want to face her mental health issues

Very serious mental health issues that as her mum, sharing a small house with her all the time, I've never once seen evidence of, or any indication she's unwell at all

Only from what she's said and then asked about exam help

That's why I'm suspicious

DD is home now and I haven't said anything to her. I'm calling the MH team tomorrow and hoping they'll review soon

@leonairs , setting aside the question of truth, if your DD is having sensory experiences like hearing voices but is otherwise living a fine, sociable, healthy and happy life, I would say that prescription of something like Risperidone may be very poor practice, and I'd question it. The effectiveness of those drugs is highly questionable, they don't address the root cause of any problems, and they can have very serious side effects. As I'm sure you know.

I'd encourage/arrange for your DD to speak with a good psychologist (ideally someone who's happy to query use of "antipsychotics" if they feel they've been inappropriately prescribed), if she's not already. She might also be interested in the Hearing Voices network: Hearing Voices Network: Welcome (hearing-voices.org). There is a lot of reason to contest widespread use of drugs like Risperidone, and there are good reasons that people often come off them so frequently.

And I hope you get to the bottom of the potential "lying" issue.

All the very best to your daughter and you.

@leonairs when you say set in her ways and likes to get what she wants do you mean in a rigid/controlling way?

Im just wondering if she might be showing signs of autism/pda? Being excellent at manipulating people/situations to get out of anything that makes them anxious is very common, especially in people with these conditions and high IQ. Pretending to be ill to try and get extra time in exams (and therefore reduce anxiety and increase feelings of control) would definitely fit this.

Unfortunately I suffered from one of the severe side effects of a prescribed off label antipsychotic after a head injury and post concussion syndrome caused a mental breakdown. I was given the antipsychotic as a last resort and never given informed consent about the debilitating and permanent neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia that I now have. I was in severe mental distress at the time they were prescribed but I wouldn't ever consider taking anything like them now, nor then had I known. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of course.
The antipsychotic drugs should only be used in severe mental health conditions and even then, they are heavy duty, serious drugs.

@NooNooHead1981 I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through. Lack of informed consent in relation to these drugs is so common, and so very wrong.

Yes you very much can do.

In case of distraction or zoning out etc

Good luck @leonairs .

I hope you will get some answers on what's going on with your dd

this reminds me of the Rosenham study:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment