Football determines the social hierarchy at primary?

[HappyHolidaysEveryone]

Just wondered about others' experiences really. Do you think it's a lot harder for, esp boys, to make friends at primary school (perhaps more thinking late primary, years 3-6) if they're not into football? I know there's a whole 'finding your tribe' thing which will hopefully eventually come...but in my mind this is possibly easier at secondary?
I'd be particularly interested in hearing views of any primary school staff, who may have seen first hand the extent to which (or not..?) a kid's participation in football affects popularity & friendships?
For context, my DS is Yr4 & struggles to find like minded people. There are many potential issues including possible SEN that are being explored but this is just something else I'm wondering about as a side issue.
Is not being one of the 'football boys' a huge barrier to friendships in the average primary classroom do we think?

I’m a teacher and also have primary aged children.

Yes, i think it definitely does to a certain degree. I guess it stands to reason that children with similar interests will bond.

My ds is not interested in football and until y4 his friendship group was more mixed but there’s been a shift this year as his friends who like football, seem to exclusively only want to play, talk about and watch football. He has other friends who don’t like football so he’s gravitating towards them more.

My DS does fine, has zero interest in football, couldnt tell you Beckham from Ronaldo & will happily tell you there is no point in football as far as he is concerned 🤣
He's a rugby kid, not many in his school but that hasn't stopped him having friends who play football.

According to my husband, football has always been "the in thing" for boys, throughout primary AND secondary. I also see this in my sons class. The boys who are good at football get lots of kudos.

However, in primary there are generally only 30 of them (half boys) so it's harder for non football boys to find their feet in the group. By the time they go to secondary, there are more lads to mix with and I suspect he will find like minded kids there.

Does your son have any interest in football at all, or does he just think its a waste of time?

I have 3 DS, one football playing and two not but they are still sporty. The one who plays football is definitely in the 'cool' gang, though I absolutely cringe writing that.
The other two don't struggle with friendships despite not playing football and one of them is good friends with a lot of the football boys. Certainly with him he has no interest in football whatsoever and has no problem letting you know that, so I think perhaps as he's his own person that kind of helps him a bit if that makes sense. He's comfortable in his own skin.

Ultimately you should encourage DS to be his own person.

sort of true, ime. The footie crowd will be its own clique and there can be fierce competition in that gang to get favour of their leader. But there are usually other boy gangs who coalesce around different interests. The geeky ones, the brainy ones, the pokemon Go ones, etc.

Depends a bit on the school. Posher areas have less of an obsession in my experience of about four schools.

Is there an equivalent for girls?

Shape - er, no they don’t. What a narrow world view! Depends on the circles you move in! At or school only a minority of boys watched the football World Cup when it was on television. Lots are rugby boys and plenty aren’t interested in sport at all. Vast numbers of adult men don’t care about football - none of the men in my extended family and very few of their friends. In fact my dd is the only who plays it through choice.

My son (now 18) struggled and complained that he had nobody to play with during KS1- he's not the most confident and extrovert. Best thing I ever did was take him to a junior football club and from there he started playing football in the playground which meant suddenly he had several friends and got invites to go around after school etc.

DS has zero interest in football. He mostly read at break times but luckily only had a term in UK primary.

I think it will vary a lot from school to school as PP have said! None of DS's friends have any interest in team sports at all (he's now 15). Wasn't a huge problem at his primary school either (although there was some teasing about his interest in dance, but that's another story).

Football is very popular in our New Forest village primary which definitely qualifies as a 'posher area'

This was definitely a problem for my son in his first school. He was hugely limited with choice of friendships as he wasn't interested in football at all. The boys who were good at football were thought of as the 'cool boys'. In his new school he still doesn't play football but it's a much bigger school so he has a much bigger group of kids to play with. The new school also stops them playing football all the time so that they can try playing different things at break and lunchtime.

My experience in teaching primary was that there is a correlation between intensity of interest in football and poorer behaviour. Not ever child obvs, but definitely a pattern. So OP, if anything I’d be relieved!

my son had no interest in football. I was just so relieved i wasn't having to cadge lifts off near strangers to get to the other side of the city for 9 am on a Sunday morning, all I ever felt was relief. my son went through a stage of loving stationery he has outgrown his love of mini highlighter pens and heart shaped post its now, still no interest in football.

DS quickly found a group of friends at secondary who were into reading, PC gaming, d&d etc. So plenty of kids who are not football obsessed, just that they are split into different primary schools, or maybe don't feel able to be themselves at primary?

Yup my son had zero interest in football. He had one or two kinda friends. Secondary he found his group of mainly actually girls for friends they are all gamers.

My oldest daughter loves football I know not a boy, but it does seem to of kept her out of any of the bitchy groups that can happen with preteen/young teen girls. Because she’s more one of the lads, plays football, games so she’s friends with girls as well but it’s girls who are again more sporty and competitive that way rather than cliques of bitchiness.

My sons preferred chasing games and went to 1 and 2 form entry schools so it was easy to find other kids who would play too. They were popular at primary and others asked them to play football sometimes. They didn't score or save goals but were good enough to be asked I guess.

They played more footie for fun at secondary age. We live in a place where it's easy to find some field to play uninterrupted.

Definitely an issue here. Out of 16 boys in his class, only 2 didn't like football (he's one). It's left him quite isolated and continued to high school, where he kind of hangs round with the kids from primary, but is left on his own when they go off to play football at lunch. They all meet up to play football outside school and obviously ds isn't invited. He's v shy, so won't go and hunt like minded kids. I've tried to get him into music, so he can find his tribe that way, but he's not interested.

I hate how much social interaction among boys is football based.

Agree with pps.

In primary schools it is often harder for what is usually a small minority of boys to find people to play with if they don't want to be playing football

And to the poster who asked, it's not so the case with girls. Maybe a bit around dance and/or gymnastics

As a parent of Boys through primary and school staff, I think yes, it does have sway, however it will also depend on the community the school is in.

Our local area is a huge rugby community, and football a very close second.

It creates a very cliquey environment for both boys and girls but especially boys, families are "known" as big hitters in the rugby community so children and families socialise out of school in these areas. What this often causes in turn, are these close knit groups that decide who to include, exclude, and work as a pack when they decide to start on someone not in the group. They can spot someone trying to fit in to impress them and decide whether or not to accept or reject them.
My dc has never been into sport, and this meant he was a) excluded and b) subject to really unpleasant bullying from the head honcho with the big rugby family, with siblings and little sycophants backing them up.

However, he knew never to bother trying to appease them didn't want to, and I have always been so proud of him.

High school things improved, and while the above won't apply to every school, it can often be a problem that staff can't address.

Thank you so so much for all your replies, I really appreciate them. Does seem as if there's a consensus that it can make it difficult to find your people. My son's school is a big four form entry state primary but for one reason or another his class this year only has 7 boys in it. I know he's been left out of at least 3 birthday parties which (possibly all of) the other boys have been to and I am getting the impression the 'cool/football boys' is a fairly impenetrable group. He's sadly not into any sports (does swimming but doesn't like team/contact sports) at all. As others have said, am hoping as time goes on and his social skills move forward (again, this is another huge area so I don't think it's the football thing on its own of course) that he'll connect with others of a 'geekier' nature.

Think this stage of primary is a tricky one friendship wise.

@Meadowfly I see what you mean, I am in many ways 😁

School isn't the only place to make friends, although it's a big part of your life at that age. Maybe some sort of weekend activity?