Page 9 | What do private schools do that state schools don't?

Plirtle · 09/03/2023 15:34

Grimbelina · 09/03/2023 15:33

I have children in both private and state. Obviously it depends where you like but there is very little difference in opportunity that I can see. Academically they are very similar. I do think the larger class (over 30) in the state means my child there is a little less 'seen' than the one in private in a class of 12 but this may have motivated them to audition for all the school plays etc. I also worry about the sense of entitlement of the private school cohort, it is quite something (and I hate it!).

Why are they there??

DanceMonster · 09/03/2023 15:34

SavBlancTonight · 09/03/2023 15:29

One thing I will acknowledge, is that it's quite easy for me to feel strongly that I don't want my children to go to private school because I live in a relatively affluent area and we are in the lucky position of having excellent state schools around us. Both of my DC have excellent choices of outsanding single sex and co-educational state schools within easy reach. I appreciate that for others it really does come down to quality of education because their state school options just aren't that good.

But I think finding ways to make more state schools as good as the ones my DC attend is something I'd like to see prioritised. And I'm not sure that a bunch of privately educated government ministers will ever truly understand the value or the challenges of doing that.

Agreed. But that’s not going to happen in the next 2 years, so I’ll be sending my children to private school rather than our truly awful local state secondary.

SchnitzelVonCrummsTum · 09/03/2023 15:35

MarmaladeFatkins · 09/03/2023 14:48

@Phos where is this diverse private school? ime only boarding schools with international students have any kind of diversity besides a few Chinese kids. constant low level racism squashed my kids confidence lower than it already was. would love to see true diversity in private schools

My older kids are at an academically selective private school in the North East and it is highly ethnically diverse - much more diverse than the local state secondary and indeed the North East itself which is something like 96% white. A high percentage of pupils (in general) are on bursaries.

To answer the question: in our case, what we were hoping for is an environment where our bright but highly geeky and socially awkward oldest daughter could flourish and not have the shit kicked out of her on a daily basis by her primary school bullies. An environment where it was cool to be clever.

I really love her school. I feel that she is safe there. I think every kid deserves to feel safe and I appreciate we are lucky to be able to get her away from the peers who were destroying her confidence and her mental health.

DanceMonster · 09/03/2023 15:35

Grimbelina · 09/03/2023 15:33

I have children in both private and state. Obviously it depends where you like but there is very little difference in opportunity that I can see. Academically they are very similar. I do think the larger class (over 30) in the state means my child there is a little less 'seen' than the one in private in a class of 12 but this may have motivated them to audition for all the school plays etc. I also worry about the sense of entitlement of the private school cohort, it is quite something (and I hate it!).

Why do you send one/some of them to private school then?

Pumpkin20222 · 09/03/2023 15:42

IwasToldThereWouldBeCake · 09/03/2023 13:00

I think there is going to be increasing backlash against private school /unbalanced privilege......... The world is changing and there may be unofficial anti private school quotas in workplaces, or blind interviewing techniques.

The cons:
Privately educated students will have to deal with anti privilege backlash.

Connections may simply be other MC families struggling financially.

Difficulty navigating mixed class workplaces.

A greater proportion of students following their artistic dreams rather than a practical approach to life...... Ending up impoverished and bitter in later years.

Sense of entitlement and expectation that adult life will seamlessly replicate a wealthy upbringing, without a focus on the work ethic required to be self sufficient.

The need to hear lived experience and fully understand community needs also means that some school outreach projects are starting to become questionable. Why should a public school pupil be a mentor to a pupil at the local State school, and how can a pupil be in a position to provide 'expertise' in a developing country: "We support Christel House by deploying our teachers and students to share expertise and experience" (Perse School, Supporting Our Community)

Drfosters · 09/03/2023 15:47

fruitbrewhaha · 09/03/2023 12:35

A network. Your not just buying a good education, you are buying into a friendship group who will open doors for you.

this is a complete myth I’m afraid. 99% of kids who go to private school are children of ordinary professional people. I went private and my friend’s parents were teachers, middle managers, accountants, doctors etc and guess what we all became the same. None of us have become mega rich celebrities or chief CEO types and none of us have an amazing network of people where we all just look after each other to the detriment of others. My kids go to private school and I’m yet to meet anyone remotely interesting enough to open an amazing network of people that will somehow open a door for them. My friends and I joke how we are yet to meet this amazing network of people that will elevate our lives. That said, the name of the school does often open doors for you, simply just because it is likely to be more recognisable and recruiters tend to focus on what they have heard of.

Sistanotcista · 09/03/2023 15:47

RampantIvy · 09/03/2023 15:32

I live in an area with a much lower than average ethnic minority population. The private school we looked at in the next city had far more diversity than the state comprehensive that my daughter ended up going to.

They are, however, overwhelmingly middle class!

Yes, very. When out with my friends, we were talking about politics. The one with privately educated children would never, ever vote anything but Tory. The rest of us would never, ever vote Tory. Luckily her DS has seen the light and is not a Tory voter

Love this, RampantIvy! My DD is also not a Tory supporter - a very rare and unusual position at her school.

lanthanum · 09/03/2023 15:50

Mommymoments · 09/03/2023 12:24

For me the local private does
Weekly swimming
Learning an orchestra instrument (extra cost)
Debating
Language (Spanish, French, German & afterschool Latin, Mandarin & Russian)
Yoga
Hockey & Lacrosse
Lots of sporting & drama opportunities
Excellent field trips out of school
Ski trip from Y7 onwards..

Would love all that for my dc's but can't afford it. But would love to hear about all the nice extras your dc's get at their private.

Why do you want to hear about all the things you can't afford? Seems a bit silly to dwell on it.

More to the point would be to think about how you can provide some of that. DD has done weekly swimming, learned two instruments, did an after-school language club in primary and learned a different language out of school at secondary. We've managed to visit some places relevant to her topics. We have had to pay, but a lot less than the private school fees. She's also had more choice - she's been able to play in a brass band, a wind band and an orchestra - not many private schools would have all three, and they might dictate which she got to play in. Scouts/guides or cadets provide all sorts of opportunities, and there are plenty of sports clubs around - usually a wider choice than in a particular private school.

Some of those things are available in some state schools, too, although it's quite variable. A couple of schools near here have used the Turing scheme to offer free trips abroad to their students. Some have pools. Quite a lot have instrumental music lessons available.

Pancakes2023 · 09/03/2023 15:53

Having worked in both these are the differences:

Smaller class sizes make a massive difference.
Fewer behaviour issues and calmer learning environment in general.
The teachers aren't better but they are less stressed so can actually get on with their job and enjoy it.
The teachers teach their specialist subject (usually anyway).
More money per student so better resources and facilities.
Better extra curricular opportunities and trips.
Better careers guidance and support with UCAS.

Southwestten · 09/03/2023 16:05

Well you'd have to be a bit dumb to vote Labour if you intend to use private schools in the next 10 years. I know plenty of friends who vote Lib dem

Plirtle you beat me too it.

Has the oft posted comment on private/state school threads ‘Eton must be a rubbish school as Boris and David Cameron went there’ been updated with ‘Winchester must be a rubbish school as Rishi went there’?

Marchforward · 09/03/2023 16:06

qpmz · 09/03/2023 12:53

Superiority is not a desirable trait though. I think you meant that but wasn't sure.

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I’m not sure if I did mean superiority, for some people it’s true, but I think I meant sense of confidence or being self assured.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 09/03/2023 16:11

Plirtle · 09/03/2023 15:18

Yes she would, if you model it at home.

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I disagree. You can talk about stuff at home, but you can't get the same insights that you do by really getting to know people in different situations.

Dodgeitornot · 09/03/2023 16:13

@DanceMonster Its a disgust how much of a postcode lottery education in this country is. There are people who live in areas where even the private schools are really a joke and I wouldn't want my child in them for free. Even near us, the difference from state school to state school is huge.

MaidOfSteel · 09/03/2023 16:13

How is it, or what is it, they teach the kids to believe they're better than state school kids?

Juja · 09/03/2023 16:19

There is a huge range of both state schools and private schools. My view is most parents are seeking the best for their children and in some areas choices are much more limited. Where we live there are very few private schools and none are selective.

This means the state schools in our area tend to have a broad socio-economic cross-section and engaged parents. Our DC also realised that they were pretty privileged on a scale of 1-10 while in an elite indie they would not have been in the top decile. I feel this has been a significant benefit for our two DC. DC1 was at a grammar, DC2 got in but turned down the grammar option for an excellent comprehensive that had after school Latin, a great jazz band, mock trials, ski trips etc. (not that she did all of these 😊).

Both ended up with excellent grades and uni offers. Neither benefited from contextual offers for Uni as the schools had good results, we live in a postcode with good progression to HE and our household income isn't low.

As a family we were in the rare position of being able to choose private though made an active choice for state despite both DH & I enjoying our private schools. We were given confidence to choose state schools by an article in the economist 20 years ago published about the time DC1 was born which showed that supportive engage parents tend to get great value from state schools. We used the saved funds to support the state schools DC attended and to use holidays to broaden our DCs education through travel in a way which wouldn't have been possible if we had being paying school fees. As Mark Twain said (paraphrasing) "Don't let your schooling get in the way of your education."

Plirtle · 09/03/2023 16:31

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 09/03/2023 16:11

I disagree. You can talk about stuff at home, but you can't get the same insights that you do by really getting to know people in different situations.

Show quote history

I really don't think your average state school kid is some kind of beatific Buddha figure, showing deep understanding of their fellow man in all his forms, despite how state parents describe them.

Feelinglikeihadaboringnight · 09/03/2023 16:31

Just to note
Orchestras, choirs etc are available by choice. Not picked by the teachers.
So mine were in strings orch, string quartet, full senior orchestra
Wind band, brass and, barber shop, choir and Cathedral choir, full senior orchestra
Jazz band, rock bank, full senior orchestra
Only the full orchestra once they got to senior school required a certain grade. But that was only grade 6.

They also did lots of small performances from age 8 in prep. To prepare them for larger performances.
It’s all very Very nurturing.

Bunnycat101 · 09/03/2023 16:31

I think there is a difference between prep and secondary both in terms of the gap but also the demographics. I think you get a broader set of families who will stretch for secondary versus those who can afford private from 4-18. There also seems to be a bit of a pushy parent arms race in the local preps so in some ways I’m quite glad of a more chilled out experience.

For me the gap between primary and a prep wasn’t big enough to justify the fees but I don’t doubt the experience is likely better. The biggest difference is cohort (more need in state schools even the affluent ones) and music. Sport is really good at ours but there is no music. facilities are lovely, very engaged staff and PTA.

I went to a properly shit secondary and succeeded so I know it is possible but I didn’t enjoy it. My local state secondary doesn’t set, doesn’t allow you to do more than one language and I just don’t want the environment for my own children if I can possibly afford not to send them there.

Plirtle · 09/03/2023 16:32

Our DC also realised that they were pretty privileged on a scale of 1-10 while in an elite indie they would not have been in the top decile. I feel this has been a significant benefit for our two DC

Sorry - the benefit of being more privileged than their classmates?

Usernamen · 09/03/2023 16:35

IwasToldThereWouldBeCake · 09/03/2023 13:00

I think there is going to be increasing backlash against private school /unbalanced privilege......... The world is changing and there may be unofficial anti private school quotas in workplaces, or blind interviewing techniques.

The cons:
Privately educated students will have to deal with anti privilege backlash.

Connections may simply be other MC families struggling financially.

Difficulty navigating mixed class workplaces.

A greater proportion of students following their artistic dreams rather than a practical approach to life...... Ending up impoverished and bitter in later years.

Sense of entitlement and expectation that adult life will seamlessly replicate a wealthy upbringing, without a focus on the work ethic required to be self sufficient.

Very interesting post.

Reminded me of a posh Pilates teacher that looked down her nose at the uncreative “corporate” women who attend her class (forgetting that without us, the studio that pays her wages wouldn’t survive…). Anyway, I found her behaviour most strange until I found out from a friend that this teacher is in her 30s, a failed dancer and living in a grotty flatshare in East London. Bitter and impoverished sums it up, I think.

NeedToChangeName · 09/03/2023 16:36

my DD's school held, in the sixth form, a 'networking afternoon' where basically parents volunteered to mingle with students chatting with them about aspirations - designed to build confidence which I thought was a good idea. I also volunteered to do practice job interviews with them - (the students who already worked were so much better at being interviewed which is why my DC all had jobs before they went off ti university). I'd be interested to know if this sort of thing happened at state school

@ItsReallyOnlyMe My DS' state school do these events regularly

OP, I imagine some state schools are fantastic, some not so good. And some private schools fantastic, some not so good. I don't think you can lump them all together

Where I live, state secondary teachers must have a degree in the subject they teach. That's not compulsory for teachers in private schools

And state school pupils can attend local college part time, which gives access to a wider variety of subjects. I don't think private schools are in that scheme

IwasToldThereWouldBeCake · 09/03/2023 16:37

I know many bitter and impoverished privately educated "artists" and yogies.

Plirtle · 09/03/2023 16:39

IwasToldThereWouldBeCake · 09/03/2023 16:37

I know many bitter and impoverished privately educated "artists" and yogies.

I volunteer with citizens advice and I can promise you I know many bitter and impoverished people who definitely didn't go to private school.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 09/03/2023 16:41

Plirtle · 09/03/2023 16:31

I really don't think your average state school kid is some kind of beatific Buddha figure, showing deep understanding of their fellow man in all his forms, despite how state parents describe them.

Show quote history

I'm not saying they are, but I can say that I have seen my dd's awareness and understanding of people with different life circumstances to her own increase exponentially as a result of being in a school with greater socioeconomic diversity. She absolutely did not get that from her very middle class primary school.

Whether you believe that or not doesn't really matter. I know what I have observed.

Lovemelovemydoggie · 09/03/2023 16:43

My nephew goes to a £8,000 a term prep school. It id set in lovely grounds and looks impressive.

But, he is in a class of 16 (no TA). As one of the brightest, he is usually left to get on with things whilst the teacher helps those who are struggling. He’s bored.
He was not picked to take part in the sport he excels in.
Given 3 lines in the school play despite enjoying drama.
Not invited to play in the school concert despite playing 2 instruments well.
School pool is ancient, dirty looking and (apparently) always freezing cold.
There are fights in the changing room and his sports equipment keeps getting stolen.
His confidence is at rock bottom.

Even my sister has finally agreed she’s wasting her money and is looking at moving him to the local state school.

What do private schools do that state schools don't?

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