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Thread 21. Sunak. How many more will be deserting the sinking ship?

982 replies

Roussette · 08/03/2023 09:10

Here we go. Previous thread.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4735780-thread-21-sunak-return-of-the-numpties?page=20&reply=124466839

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
Moonicorn · 12/03/2023 22:04

Roussette · 12/03/2023 22:01

Doesn't mean to say we have to agree with you

Of course it doesn’t, but MN posters as a whole are strongly gender critical. So it seems odd to be here and complain about ‘transphobia’.

Roussette · 12/03/2023 22:04

Moonicorn · 12/03/2023 22:04

Of course it doesn’t, but MN posters as a whole are strongly gender critical. So it seems odd to be here and complain about ‘transphobia’.

We are not on those threads.

OP posts:
BewareTheLibrarians · 12/03/2023 22:05

Moonicorn · 12/03/2023 21:46

Why doesn’t anyone address my safety concerns about the channel migrants in terms of the safety of women and girls?

Because you’re unable to phrase it in a way that doesn’t come across as hideously prejudiced, and because you are unwilling to consider the complex factors that may affect men more than women in certain countries. Because if I mention for eg that civil wars impact men more than women, you’ll dismiss it and probably throw in an insult. If I mention that boys and young men are at risk of being conscripted into the military against their will and all the horrors that leads to, you’ll dismiss that too as you refuse to believe men can be harmed. See a pattern?

In a previous job I worked in refugee and asylum seeker education, and we worked on an integration scheme to educate men on women’s rights, appropriate sexual behaviour, cultural norms and what harassment looks like and the consequences of unwanted behaviour. This was really poorly funded and we worked for free a lot of the time to make it work. Was it a success? Well, we worked with police, religious leaders and schools and didn’t receive any complaints about our “students” behaviour so possibly?

What have you done, actually got off your arse and done to protect women? Cos sitting in the internet whinging that men suck ain’t it.

Anyway, went off on a bit of a tangent then, sorry.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2023 22:07

I don't see what the issues about transgender identities have to do with Afghan men arriving in boats.

What happened to the Albanians?

Moonicorn have you misconstrued this thread and its spirit? I am being charitable rather than thinking you are just spoiling for a fight.

pointythings · 12/03/2023 22:07

Good points, @BewareTheLibrarians . I hadn't thought about conscription.

Moonicorn · 12/03/2023 22:07

BewareTheLibrarians · 12/03/2023 22:05

Because you’re unable to phrase it in a way that doesn’t come across as hideously prejudiced, and because you are unwilling to consider the complex factors that may affect men more than women in certain countries. Because if I mention for eg that civil wars impact men more than women, you’ll dismiss it and probably throw in an insult. If I mention that boys and young men are at risk of being conscripted into the military against their will and all the horrors that leads to, you’ll dismiss that too as you refuse to believe men can be harmed. See a pattern?

In a previous job I worked in refugee and asylum seeker education, and we worked on an integration scheme to educate men on women’s rights, appropriate sexual behaviour, cultural norms and what harassment looks like and the consequences of unwanted behaviour. This was really poorly funded and we worked for free a lot of the time to make it work. Was it a success? Well, we worked with police, religious leaders and schools and didn’t receive any complaints about our “students” behaviour so possibly?

What have you done, actually got off your arse and done to protect women? Cos sitting in the internet whinging that men suck ain’t it.

Anyway, went off on a bit of a tangent then, sorry.

I’ve done an awful lot. You don’t know what I do for a living and I’m not about to disclose, you’ll just have to believe me (or not; as you won’t want to). But, I know what I’m talking about.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2023 22:08

I am just thinking about the lovely boy Freddie Flintoff met through his cricket project.

Moonicorn · 12/03/2023 22:09

As for conscription - do you believe Ukraine has ‘done it wrong’, that they should’ve let themselves be invaded and the men run for it?

IClaudine · 12/03/2023 22:12

I think if we don't want the whole thread derailed we may need to not respond to certain posters.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2023 22:15

Here's amazing Adnan:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-62462333

Moonicorn · 12/03/2023 22:17

IClaudine · 12/03/2023 22:12

I think if we don't want the whole thread derailed we may need to not respond to certain posters.

How convenient.

pointythings · 12/03/2023 22:17

@Piggywaspushed and there's absolutely no reason why other young men wouldn't be able to adapt and be decent, productive members of UK society. @Moonicorn seems to believe that Afghan and male = beyond redemption.

BewareTheLibrarians · 12/03/2023 22:30

If you’ve done an awful lot @Moonicorn , good for you. But the way you’ve casually dismissed the important work I did proves you don’t really care about efforts to protect women, you just want to push your agenda of all men = bad.

pointythings · 12/03/2023 22:35

@BewareTheLibrarians some nuance to be had there: all Arab men = bad. All Albanian men = bad. British men somehow escape scrutiny.

L1ttledrummergirl · 12/03/2023 23:54

@Moonicorn, are you aware that you've joined a long running, respectful thread where we have long debated the in and outs of many issues, including twaw, brexit, immigration, illegal gatherings, government and in some cases opposition corruption, asylum, language. I could add many more topics which have been discussed robustly with evidence where needed but mainly in a spirit of open debate. This means we have listened to opposing views and either adjusted our thinking or enabled others to.

I don't think we've talked about Ukraine yet, but some of us have commented on the long running threads about the war and I would be very surprised if there aren't a mixture of opinions about the situation from the contributors here, although, I feel overall broadly supportive of Ukraine.

The one thing we have agreed on is that this government is plunging ever lower in the depths to try to cling on to power. It has nothing to do with what's best for the country or good governance and everything to do with fleecing the people of this country with increasing taxes and lowering of standards. They will do anything to keep their incompetent necks in the game, even if ruining the country and it's reputation in the process.

Nothing is black and white, there are nuances but by polarising the debate they create division and distrust and hatred. Feel free to contribute to this thread, but do so honestly and be open to learning and growing in your knowledge, back your argument with genuine, verifiable evidence and leave the hysteria for elsewhere.

Moonicorn · 12/03/2023 23:58

What have I said that is hysterical? Genuinely?

AnElegantChaos · 13/03/2023 00:24

Either men from Afghanistan, as a whole, are misogynistic and oppressive in their views of women or they’re not. To say they’re not means you think Afghan women are either lying or exaggerating. If they are, then they’re not safe to have enter the country in their thousands.

@MoonicornSome bedtime reading for you from the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom. You don't come across as someone open to nuance - but I would urge you to read it and open your mind somewhat. It's fascinating.

reliefweb.int/report/afghanistan/making-visible-afghan-men-who-are-working-women-s-rights-and-gender-just-society#:~:text=Analyses%20on%20women's%20rights%20and,gender%2Djust%20society%20in%20Afghanistan.

L1ttledrummergirl · 13/03/2023 00:49

Moonicorn · 12/03/2023 23:58

What have I said that is hysterical? Genuinely?

There aren’t any answers.

The only things we can do are break international law by denying them asylum, or physically stopping the boats from setting off.

There is absolutely nothing else.

The fact is the Afghan army, who the West spent millions training and equipping, ran off and abandoned their duties. And now they’ve abandoned their women and children to who knows what fate, and want to come here.

These are men from countries where women are sub human. I cannot stress that enough.

On any other MN thread, the safety of women and girls comes before the feelings of men. But not here - not Afghan women and girls, not British women and girls. All expected to put up with feeling unsafe to give the men what they want.

Once again, women and girls are seen as an acceptable price to pay to affirm men. It’s just acceptable on MN this time as the men in question are not white.

Why doesn’t anyone address my safety concerns about the channel migrants in terms of the safety of women and girls?
I meant British women. And 90% of the boat migrants are male.

I would happily take and financially support virtually any number of women and child refugees. But not men. There are very few downsides to being a man in this world. This should be the only one.

None of this reads as rational or nuanced to me.

IClaudine · 13/03/2023 08:18

Morning all!

I wonder what this week un Tory will bring. The migration bill has its second reading. Then we have the budget. Will Hunt u-turn on the energy price guarantee ending? How will Sunk persuade workshy early retirees to return to the workplace?

And of course the GL saga trundles on.

Notonthestairs · 13/03/2023 08:32

There is also the Junior Doctors strike.

Blossomtoes · 13/03/2023 08:42

Busy old week then.

IClaudine · 13/03/2023 08:45

Notonthestairs · 13/03/2023 08:32

There is also the Junior Doctors strike.

Oh yes, and on budget day! Along with several others. So many it is hard to keep track. Useful timetable here.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/02/uk-strike-days-calendar-public-service-when-planned-february-march

DuncinToffee · 13/03/2023 08:55

Dr Emma Runswick(British Medical Association) - "It would cost around £1b to increase junior doctors pay... the govt have written off 15x that on unusable, fraudulent PPE... Steve Barclay needs to stop the silly preconditions if he wants talks to take place"

#BBCBreakfast

twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1635189852663848961?t=6biXMebKQ0eexYYl1zCPGA&s=19

DuncinToffee · 13/03/2023 08:57

Rishi Sunak distances himself from Richard Sharp(BBC Chairman) saying his appointment "had nothing to do with me."

Blossomtoes · 13/03/2023 08:58

DuncinToffee · 13/03/2023 08:57

Rishi Sunak distances himself from Richard Sharp(BBC Chairman) saying his appointment "had nothing to do with me."

Whoa! Perhaps he could get shot of him then.