Page 17 | Tenants making viewings difficult

areweonabreak · 2023-03-03T14:23:58+00:00

We have a flat that we rent out. It was my DH’s flat before we met. It’s been rented out for 10 years now (by only 2 tenants) but we’re now in a position where our own house needs a lot of money spending on it and we want to free up some capital. we do feel bad for the current tenant, we offered them first refusal to buy the flat (it’s on the market for £90k) but they cannot afford it (even though a mortgage would probably be cheaper than the rent but they’d another thread) we’ve had a few viewings now but all the feedback is that the tenants have told them that they don’t want to move so they’re put off as they don’t want the hassle. we live about a 40 minute drive away from the flat so the agents are sorting out all of the viewings. The agents have suggested that it might be easier to sell if it’s empty. We’re really not sure what to do, they’re on a rolling monthly contract at the moment. has anyone else been in this position before? would anyone else recommend selling as a vacant property?

MaireadMcSweeney · 05/03/2023 05:53

Gemcat1 · 04/03/2023 20:25

@MaireadMcSweeney Some tenants don't or won't leave unless or until a S21 is served. That is saying no.

Wow speaking to you is like wading through treacle. Never mind, I give up

Rosscameasdoody · 05/03/2023 07:24

Gemcat1 · 04/03/2023 20:12

@Thesharkradar When I first left home I had no option but rent with DH because it was impossible to buy, you had to wait to get a mortgage, maybe 5 years, and there were only 2 kind, straight repayment or endowment. Then, there was a change in the way mortgages could be obtained and you only needed a 10% deposit for a house and 20% for a lease on a flat. We were saving as hard as we could when mortgages changed and we only needed 5% deposit which meant we could buy our first property. Now, having a property means that the government, both local and central, have their eyes on it to take from you at any excuse. We have to maintain it and should we need care then the local authority demand payment regardless of income or savings forcing sale.

I dont understand that last part of your post. No one can be forced to sell a property to pay for care. If you are a joint owner and your partner needs care, the LA can only put a charge on the property for the share that partner owns, so they can recover fees when the property is sold.

Rosscameasdoody · 05/03/2023 07:27

Mumof3andshattered · 04/03/2023 17:08

Is it petty? They have paid this couple's mortgage for 10 years. Presumably been decent tenants, otherwise they wouldn't still be in the property. A decade of looking after someone else's investment, of course its going to be a kick in the teeth when they suddenly want you to let strangers in your home with a view to kicking you out

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But renting instead of buying was their choice and they knew that from the start. And given the long waiting lists for social housing, where do you think we’d be without the private sector you seem to hate so much ?

Rosscameasdoody · 05/03/2023 07:40

saraclara · 04/03/2023 22:13

So how come you don't know that they don't have to allow viewings at all, and are entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of their home?

Can you imagine having to have the place looking perfectly clean and tidy multiple times, so that the owner can evict you more easily?
They quite simply have the legal right not to do that, and quite simply, why should they be expected to?

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Possibly to stop word getting out that they’re problem tenants, making it difficult to secure another tenancy ? Their behaviour suggests they’re relying on the LA to rehouse them, as they don’t seem to be bothered about a reference from the OP. So it will probably go all the way to eviction through the courts.

Rosscameasdoody · 05/03/2023 07:43

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 04/03/2023 19:20

just because you haven’t grown out of student politics

You might not believe it but that's the nicest description I've heard of myself in ages - thank you, you're really cheered me up.

Not meant as a compliment methinks !!

2606s · 05/03/2023 08:05

We are in a similar situation to your Tennant's currently. Our landlord is trying to sell the property but they are selling it with us in it. Any viewings are from potential landlords. Would this be an option for you?

Having viewings in their home by total strangers feels quite an invasion of privacy. It's their home and they don't want to move. They are just being honest. Despite our letting agent probably hating me for it I'm being totally honest about the poor state of our rented house. We have been here 8 years with doors and windows that need replacing, which has caused mould issues. The electricity desperately needs looking at too. If we are getting a new landlord we want one that will fix things.

Alternatively seeing as you have been paying you rent for 10 years is there no chance of you giving them a reduced price for the property? Depending on your mortgage situation and repairs you have done during this time they may well have paid for half that or more already.

LDN1 · 05/03/2023 08:35

Bizarre that in this country, even if you own something, it's not yours to do as you will.

Op seems to be reasonable and needs to sell the property. Tenants are being unreasonable. Simple as that.

Hire a professional / or use the agents, to properly evict them and then sell as an empty property.

I've been through this and I bent over backwards to do right by the tenant inside the apartment, but my kindness was treated as weakness and the tenant made life very very hard indeed.

Tenants are rightly protected and should be treated fairly but, as well, landlords need to be able to sell their property if need be. Private landlords are NOT in the business of providing social housing, despite what some posters here seem to think.

AnotherEmma · 05/03/2023 08:55

"Bizarre that in this country, even if you own something, it's not yours to do as you will."

Well, if you choose to rent it to someone else, of course you can't just do what you want with it, you have to end the tenancy first.

Tenants are paying you rent, it's not as if you are letting them live there out of the kindness of your heart!

MaireadMcSweeney · 05/03/2023 08:56

LDN1 · 05/03/2023 08:35

Bizarre that in this country, even if you own something, it's not yours to do as you will.

Op seems to be reasonable and needs to sell the property. Tenants are being unreasonable. Simple as that.

Hire a professional / or use the agents, to properly evict them and then sell as an empty property.

I've been through this and I bent over backwards to do right by the tenant inside the apartment, but my kindness was treated as weakness and the tenant made life very very hard indeed.

Tenants are rightly protected and should be treated fairly but, as well, landlords need to be able to sell their property if need be. Private landlords are NOT in the business of providing social housing, despite what some posters here seem to think.

It's not bizarre really. Housing is not like owning a car or a watch. The landlord in this case is trying to have their cake and eat it - reaping rent from the tenants whilst also trying to sell the property. The solution is easy; remove the tenants then market the property. So much hand wringing because they are trying to cut corners.

Shutthefrontdoor99 · 05/03/2023 09:07

I'm not an expert, (probably more naive in some eyes) I'm just someone trying to find some kind of solution for your dilemma.

Have you thought about waivering their rent, but upping the price of the flat (in accordance to the amount of rent your waivering) so they can get the deposit. What I mean is, as a loose example, if the flat is 90k, ask for like 96k, you both accept and have an extra contract that states the rent can be stopped for say 6 months or whatever, they save the necessary funds to get the deposit over that time period then they can buy it, but the contract they sign for this says if they just don't pay rent then leave after the 6 months, they have the responsibility to pay the entire 6 months rent straightway. That way, you get it sold, you get cover if they go back on their word, they get a better chance to buy and not move (as I assume they don't want to go anywhere), they get a leg up onto the property ladder and everyone is happy.

Or maybe I'm just living in an idealistic world......who knows!

MaireadMcSweeney · 05/03/2023 09:12

Shutthefrontdoor99 · 05/03/2023 09:07

I'm not an expert, (probably more naive in some eyes) I'm just someone trying to find some kind of solution for your dilemma.

Have you thought about waivering their rent, but upping the price of the flat (in accordance to the amount of rent your waivering) so they can get the deposit. What I mean is, as a loose example, if the flat is 90k, ask for like 96k, you both accept and have an extra contract that states the rent can be stopped for say 6 months or whatever, they save the necessary funds to get the deposit over that time period then they can buy it, but the contract they sign for this says if they just don't pay rent then leave after the 6 months, they have the responsibility to pay the entire 6 months rent straightway. That way, you get it sold, you get cover if they go back on their word, they get a better chance to buy and not move (as I assume they don't want to go anywhere), they get a leg up onto the property ladder and everyone is happy.

Or maybe I'm just living in an idealistic world......who knows!

They would need at least £9k for a deposit. How much rent do you think a £90k flat costs per month? Even if it was £1k (doubtful) that would be 9 months at zero rent which could very well leave the landlord with zero if the tenants change their minds and leave at the end...this is a mad idea

Shutthefrontdoor99 · 05/03/2023 09:31

As I said, maybe in an ideal world.....at least the idea may have something in it to help with a solution.

If not, as others said - unfortunately i would evict them and then sell, or sell to a landlord willing to take on a property with tenants already in. If they've been there 10 years without much fuss, this should be appealing to other landlords.

IHaveaSetOfVeryParticularSkills · 05/03/2023 09:36

Shutthefrontdoor99 · 05/03/2023 09:31

As I said, maybe in an ideal world.....at least the idea may have something in it to help with a solution.

If not, as others said - unfortunately i would evict them and then sell, or sell to a landlord willing to take on a property with tenants already in. If they've been there 10 years without much fuss, this should be appealing to other landlords.

That wouldn't really work with mortgage though. The property would be valued at 90k, they would therefore not only need 4.5k or 9k as deposit but also 6k on top because mortgage wouldn't lend the extra.

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 05/03/2023 10:01

Rosscameasdoody · 05/03/2023 07:43

Not meant as a compliment methinks !!

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Unintended compliments are the best kind, because you know the person means what they say.

x2boys · 05/03/2023 10:44

user1492757084 · 04/03/2023 23:40

I like the idea of lending the tenants the deposit and helping facilitate a sale at market price. Is there a legal way?
I would offer them that option or give them notice and proceed to sell an empty abode.

Yes it sounds lovely in cloud cuckoo land why don't you lend them the deposit if your so generous?🙄

LetsPlayShadowlands · 05/03/2023 11:29

Problem when everyone thinks they can be a landlord. This is people's lives. They're not doing you a favour to earn you a little extra money while it's convenient for you.

Thesharkradar · 05/03/2023 11:56

2606s · 05/03/2023 08:05

We are in a similar situation to your Tennant's currently. Our landlord is trying to sell the property but they are selling it with us in it. Any viewings are from potential landlords. Would this be an option for you?

Having viewings in their home by total strangers feels quite an invasion of privacy. It's their home and they don't want to move. They are just being honest. Despite our letting agent probably hating me for it I'm being totally honest about the poor state of our rented house. We have been here 8 years with doors and windows that need replacing, which has caused mould issues. The electricity desperately needs looking at too. If we are getting a new landlord we want one that will fix things.

Alternatively seeing as you have been paying you rent for 10 years is there no chance of you giving them a reduced price for the property? Depending on your mortgage situation and repairs you have done during this time they may well have paid for half that or more already.

That the letting agent 'hates you' is besides the point, the letting agent wants to exploit and make a profit from you and from the landlord, they are acting in their own interests, as is the landlord, you have to push hard for your own interests.
Yes the landlord owns the property but you also own the right to use it as your own home because you have a contract and you are paying rent.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 05/03/2023 13:25

saraclara · 04/03/2023 22:13

So how come you don't know that they don't have to allow viewings at all, and are entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of their home?

Can you imagine having to have the place looking perfectly clean and tidy multiple times, so that the owner can evict you more easily?
They quite simply have the legal right not to do that, and quite simply, why should they be expected to?

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She also didn't know that the tenant only has to give one months notice.

LDN1 · 05/03/2023 15:21

MaireadMcSweeney · 05/03/2023 08:56

It's not bizarre really. Housing is not like owning a car or a watch. The landlord in this case is trying to have their cake and eat it - reaping rent from the tenants whilst also trying to sell the property. The solution is easy; remove the tenants then market the property. So much hand wringing because they are trying to cut corners.

Show quote history

Your solution is the same as what I suggested...

I tried to work with my tenant at the time. They wouldn't leave - and they wouldn't allow viewings either. They couldn't have it both ways... trying to have 'their' cake and eat it.

Tenants are rightly protected and I cannot stand bad landlords... but equally, some tenants are nightmares and refuse to act sensibly. In this case, I suggested: evict them and then sell. You've then repeated the same solution.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 05/03/2023 15:44

LetsPlayShadowlands · 05/03/2023 11:29

Problem when everyone thinks they can be a landlord. This is people's lives. They're not doing you a favour to earn you a little extra money while it's convenient for you.

And the tenants aren't doing them a favour by paying their rent. They're getting living quarters in exchange.

AmandaJonah · 05/03/2023 19:18

Agreed it is a business. And landlords need to start treating it that way. So if you ask tenants to allow viewings you are asking them for a favour. If you rent a holiday cottage and the landlord wants access to get a quote for improvement work say, the people renting are doing you a favour of they allow access.
People are under no compulsion to do you a favour in what is a business relationship.

Rosscameasdoody · 05/03/2023 19:44

user1492757084 · 04/03/2023 23:40

I like the idea of lending the tenants the deposit and helping facilitate a sale at market price. Is there a legal way?
I would offer them that option or give them notice and proceed to sell an empty abode.

And given that the Op is selling the flat to raise money to maintain their own home, where is she supposed to find the money to lend them, and how do they get around the mortgage lenders requirements if the tenants don’t qualify ?

1980sfookup · 05/03/2023 19:46

2606s · 05/03/2023 08:05

We are in a similar situation to your Tennant's currently. Our landlord is trying to sell the property but they are selling it with us in it. Any viewings are from potential landlords. Would this be an option for you?

Having viewings in their home by total strangers feels quite an invasion of privacy. It's their home and they don't want to move. They are just being honest. Despite our letting agent probably hating me for it I'm being totally honest about the poor state of our rented house. We have been here 8 years with doors and windows that need replacing, which has caused mould issues. The electricity desperately needs looking at too. If we are getting a new landlord we want one that will fix things.

Alternatively seeing as you have been paying you rent for 10 years is there no chance of you giving them a reduced price for the property? Depending on your mortgage situation and repairs you have done during this time they may well have paid for half that or more already.

When I go shopping next week I'm going to ask the store manager if I can have my bill discounted by, oh I don't know, 10% seeing as I've been shopping there for ten years and been paying towards the overheads. I think that's a winner don't you?

Rosscameasdoody · 05/03/2023 19:47

2606s · 05/03/2023 08:05

We are in a similar situation to your Tennant's currently. Our landlord is trying to sell the property but they are selling it with us in it. Any viewings are from potential landlords. Would this be an option for you?

Having viewings in their home by total strangers feels quite an invasion of privacy. It's their home and they don't want to move. They are just being honest. Despite our letting agent probably hating me for it I'm being totally honest about the poor state of our rented house. We have been here 8 years with doors and windows that need replacing, which has caused mould issues. The electricity desperately needs looking at too. If we are getting a new landlord we want one that will fix things.

Alternatively seeing as you have been paying you rent for 10 years is there no chance of you giving them a reduced price for the property? Depending on your mortgage situation and repairs you have done during this time they may well have paid for half that or more already.

And a lot of what they have paid will be eaten up with letting agents’ fees. they’re tenants. They pay rent, not mortgage. What the OP does with the rent they pay is nothing to do with them. And they wouldn’t have been in situ for ten years if the OP hadn’t been a decent landlord. Is this really a good way to pay them back ?

AmandaJonah · 05/03/2023 20:00

Reducing the sale price to the tenants makes no sense. But Op either has to evict the tenants and then sell, or accept they need to reduce the sale price.

Tenants making viewings difficult

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