Tenants making viewings difficult

[areweonabreak]

We have a flat that we rent out. It was my DH’s flat before we met. It’s been rented out for 10 years now (by only 2 tenants) but we’re now in a position where our own house needs a lot of money spending on it and we want to free up some capital.

we do feel bad for the current tenant, we offered them first refusal to buy the flat (it’s on the market for £90k) but they cannot afford it (even though a mortgage would probably be cheaper than the rent but they’d another thread)

we’ve had a few viewings now but all the feedback is that the tenants have told them that they don’t want to move so they’re put off as they don’t want the hassle.

we live about a 40 minute drive away from the flat so the agents are sorting out all of the viewings. The agents have suggested that it might be easier to sell if it’s empty.

We’re really not sure what to do, they’re on a rolling monthly contract at the moment.

has anyone else been in this position before?

would anyone else recommend selling as a vacant property?

I think the bigger issue than landlords selling up (though I don't doubt that it is having an impact) is the number of homes owned as second or holiday homes. Some holiday homes are only allowed to be holiday homes, but the vast majority would make very good homes for people, either rented or purchased.

just because you haven’t grown out of student politics

You might not believe it but that's the nicest description I've heard of myself in ages - thank you, you're really cheered me up.

@MaireadMcSweeney You are wrong, a Section 21 is a no fault eviction where the landlord wishes to reclaim their property for whatever reason. A Section 8 is used to remove a problem tenant for whatever reason.

You've missed the point I was making. You said You need to tell them that they have to leave by a certain date and if they don't serve a Section 21 notice how do you propose she tells them to leave without service a section 21 notice?

@Thesharkradar When I first left home I had no option but rent with DH because it was impossible to buy, you had to wait to get a mortgage, maybe 5 years, and there were only 2 kind, straight repayment or endowment. Then, there was a change in the way mortgages could be obtained and you only needed a 10% deposit for a house and 20% for a lease on a flat. We were saving as hard as we could when mortgages changed and we only needed 5% deposit which meant we could buy our first property. Now, having a property means that the government, both local and central, have their eyes on it to take from you at any excuse. We have to maintain it and should we need care then the local authority demand payment regardless of income or savings forcing sale.

@MaireadMcSweeney No, you said that you can only serve a Section 21 notice which is incorrect. As there is no contract then the landlord, through their agent in this case, requests that they leave by a certain date. If they don't leave, then the landlord will need a S21. The tenant will absorb the court costs.

This is from the government website - How much notice you need to give

In England, a Section 21 notice must give your tenants at least 2 months’ notice to leave your property.

You may need to give a longer notice period if you have a ‘contractual’ periodic tenancy. This is a fixed term tenancy that has ended, but included a clause to continue as a periodic tenancy. The amount of notice must be the same as the rental period, if this is more than 2 months. For example, if your tenant pays rent every 3 months, you must give 3 months’ notice.

@Gemcat1
yes I know I said that. And I know that I was incorrect to say it's the only way you can ask them to leave. The POINT I was making was that you said 'ask them to leave and if they say no serve them s21' which makes NO SENSE

@MaireadMcSweeney Some tenants don't or won't leave unless or until a S21 is served. That is saying no.

The tenant can legally stop viewings. She is paying for quiet enjoyment of the property.

A tenancy contract does not trump the law. The tenant can refuse viewings whatever the contract says because they are paying for quiet enjoyment of the property.
Landlords put this in their contracts in the hope that the tenant doesn't know the law.

They dont even have to leave after a section 21. The only people who can end a tenancy is the tenant or a judge with a court order for eviction.

I think it's fair enough to refuse viewings and would in this case probably be better option for them, but if you allow viewings, it's just better for everyone to get on with it.

You’re quite right @Sugarplumfairy65 I just read that.
In the ye old days you could give notice to access. These days you can’t. Just found that out.

Reading this thread, I just don’t get why any sane person would ever contemplate renting out a property. No wonder private rentals are decreasing.

It may be easier to serve them with legal notice to vacate the property but even that can take awhile as local councils will probably advise them to sit tight until the date to leave has passed which then forces your hand into taking them to court which can be a lengthy process. Could you maybe arrange viewings whilst the tenants are out(with their permission) to avoid them possibly putting off potential buyers. Although to be fair potential buyers should be made aware that tenants are currently residing in the property. I was in a similar situation to your tenants-landlord was selling and she wanted me out in order to sell faster. She also appointed estate agents but the agents would arranfe viewings and send people by themselves despite knowing i was a single mum with 3 kids the youngest being a baby under a year old. On that basis i advised letting agents that its not my job to conduct these viewings and that i wasn't comfortable with having strangers in my home without the presence of a paid professional. My landlord then accused me of being awkward and trying to sabotage her sales. She gave notice but it wasnt worth a thing as the landlord hadn't secured my deposit into a required deposit scheme. She literally harassed me to leave until i had no choice but to find another private let due to the council being unable to help because of the landlords failure to do what was legally required with the security deposits i paid to move in there

There are so many rules these days. So many extra costs.
Not to mention liability for what’s going on in your property even when you have no access rights….tenants growing cannabis for example. Yep

So how come you don't know that they don't have to allow viewings at all, and are entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of their home?

Can you imagine having to have the place looking perfectly clean and tidy multiple times, so that the owner can evict you more easily?
They quite simply have the legal right not to do that, and quite simply, why should they be expected to?

@Sugarplumfairy65 You have not followed the chain of our discussion so your comment is pointless.

So really, Itchy, what you’re saying is that no one should be a landlord because it’s just motivated by greed. So where do people live when they can’t get a mortgage?

I like the idea of lending the tenants the deposit and helping facilitate a sale at market price. Is there a legal way?
I would offer them that option or give them notice and proceed to sell an empty abode.

Ive asked this many times on MN but never get a proper response. I rented privately with my dh and dcs for 10 years before we got on the the housing ladder. If it wasnt for private landlords we would probably have been number 900 on the council waiting list for a home whilst living in a b&b. Private landlords fill a gap which if they didnt exist would result in an even worse housing crisis.

@ItchySnoofyour comments are not responding to OP query.
This is unhelpful and spiteful and completely irrelevant

The tenants would have to declare the money at point of sale
They would have to pay tax on it

Why would anyone want to become financially entangled with people who are already too shiftless to purchase?

You're going to have to either work with them to give them time to save the deposit etc and everyone is happy or give them notice...the fact they are refusing both so much indicates that they are likely on benefits and know that they literally cannot buy and will also struggle to find anywhere else to rent in the current market. Give them notice and go from there.