Is my nursery accusing me of abuse?

[Annas1237]

Hi all,

my daughter who is just over 2 years old has been going to the same nursery since she was one. Overall she has been pretty happy going and enjoys interaction with other children.

However, 2 weeks ago an incident happened where the nursery pulled me into a room when I came to pick up my daughter to report that my daughter has been refusing a nappy change and screams (more like alarming howling ) when they try to change her nappy. So obviously I was alarmed by that and at that point I suggested that maybe one of the staff unintentionally hurt her when doing a nappy change and since it’s a sensitive area she now remembers that and doesn’t trust them. The nursery uses wet wipes to clean and this does sometimes cause major irritation in that area. The nursery manager proceeded by saying that the staff is always very careful with nappy changing etc.
Then the nursery manager began by asking me whether everything is ok at home - to which I responded yes since I have not had my daughter really get overly upset over a nappy change ( she sometimes does wiggle but nothing overly concerning). Second thing they suggested is that my daughter might have a bladder infection or something else along those lines so it might a good idea to take her to gp- and since this happened on Friday, I told them that I will check to see how she is at home and make a decision on Saturday to whether to take her or not. The nursery manager was happy with that approach and we said our goodbyes and I went to get my daughter. When I came to her room and I asked a few of the key staff on what happened and as it turns out - her behaviour started after the 4th nappy change that day (which indicates to me that they are at fault here, probably weren’t careful and accidentally hurt her). But I didn’t blame them and was understanding since children can react strongly sometimes and I suggested that maybe she was sore when they used the wipes, which made it worse, especially since this happened towards the end of day.

Once we came home - my daughter was fine. On her first nappy change she did get upset (almost like she was remembering the past) but after I reassured her, but she has calmed down.

Come the next day which was Saturday, my daughter was absolutely fine, I was able to change her without a problem laying down so I decided not to take her to A&E. same thing on Sunday so no trip to doctor was needed.

The following week at the nursery, same thing happened (her not allowing them to change her nappy), her key person told me that they now change her nappy standing up as she just won’t lay down for nappy change. I told them if that works for now, just go with that approach until she forgets.

A week passed and nothing more was said to me of this issue even though I kept asking every day - the answer I got is she is still being changed standing up and she still won’t lay down.

Now just over a week later, yesterday, when I came to pick up my daughter I was asked to have a private chat. During which, I have been told that all the staff who dealt with my daughter on that day have signed a form explaining what they have been witnessing and that I need to take my daughter to a GP within 48 hours for a full examination including her private area and that I must adhere to that timeline or the nursery will have no other choice but to contact child services. The GP report needs to be sent to them either via email or printed and handed over. Obviously I was in shocked yesterday? How do we go from fussy child to this???

Obviously I will take my daughter to the GP and I feel awful that I have to put her through that ordeal (she will hate being stripped naked and touched by a stranger in this case gp) but i am left with no choice. Also I am hundred percent sure, nothing will be found in terms physically being wrong with her.

Mums, what rights do I have as a parent who has been put through this in such an insensitive and insulting way? Who do I complain to or contact? I am certain it’s their fault in terms of why my child had a reaction since as I mentioned before this happened on the 4th nappy change. It feels as though they want to pin everything on me. This has made me really upset to the point that I can’t sleep at night.. any advise on what to do next is really appreciated…

Don't take it personally. They only know you. They cannot know who else may have access to your child or not. They are seeing a behaviour change and want to ensure that they don't miss anything they shouldn't have.

Get your DD fully checked out by the GP - if she does have a uti or thrush then she'll be sore, and you want her better.

Yeah so if they had a child protection concern - as in they though the child was being abused - they would just go ahead and contact SS. The issue seems to be that you haven't had your child seen by a doctor and if you refuse to then in their opinion it becomes neglect, which is a CP concern and will need referred to SS.

Surely they can’t demand you make an appointment within 48 hours and submit a report to them..who is going to pay for this report, them or you? At my GP practice a report like that would cost around £150.00. And it wouldn’t be within that time frame, it’d take at least a week.

It sounds like you accused the nursery when maybe it was a uti. They have then turned it back on you as they know they aren’t in the wrong. Therefore they are concerned by you immediately jumping to that conclusion. Has it been considered at 2 she is ready to potty train. Particularly at nursery seeing other children doing this? I would say start potty training. Your going to have to go down the safeguarding route to prevent further issues.

I'm in agreement with that, however imo its very strange for them to demand a gp report etc. If they feel they need to report it then they should do so, it is not their place to conduct an investigation?

Sorry was replying to MeinKraft!

They can ask you to take your child to a GP and they can contact services if they feel they have a child protection issue at hand. But they cannot demand that you give them a medical report or any of your child's private medical information, that's a very strange demand.

For under 5's, everyone.

OP you said yourself she might have a UTI or similar and haven't taken her to the doctor, and that their wipes irritate her but haven't given them your own to replace them.

I am conflicted.

If your dd had a uti you would see similar pain and struggles at home. It wouldn’t just stop.
Equally I would want her checked out just in case. I am sure you can make it nicer for dd, and drs are experienced.

The issue I would have are the demands from the nursery, it seems very heavy handed and my trust would be compromised. It’s definitely concerning, either they extremely worried and becoming insistent or there is another agenda.

Further update on my post.

Where?

@Annas1237

The nursery are trying to safeguard your DD, yes. However, they are way overstepping here. They have no right to give you a timeframe to take her to a GP and absolutely no right to demand a report. Even more so to demand an intimate examination. They aren’t medical, and no GP would undertake such an exam without very good reason, nor would they put “all fine no abuse here” in writing.

If a Child Protection Medical is required (which is what they’ve effectively asked you to get) then this needs to be agreed and arranged by Children’s Services, and a social worker needs to be present. The nursery appear to have a lack of understanding of basic safeguarding processes and have gone way beyond their remit.

With all that being said, I would still take your DD to the GP, for your own peace of mind if nothing else. She may have a UTI and it can’t hurt to double check. Also, now if you don’t take her it’ll look ‘off’ and entrench their suspicions. But I would push back with the nursery and explain that you are doing this as a concerned parent and that they have no legal right to send her to the GP, or to demand she have an (invasive and possibly unnecessary) intimate exam. That simply isn’t within their remit. If they have any concerns they should make a referral to Children’s Services for a full investigation. Without any other issues (assuming you are being upfront about everything in this post) it wouldn’t get beyond an initial assessment.

Also, I’d probably be looking for a new nursery.

Also CP medicals are done by trained paediatricians, not GPs. I don’t think I could trust a nursery who have such a limited understanding of safeguarding procedures.

And finally, send her in with different wipes!

Social services shouldn't be used as a threat like this. They can make life more stressful and difficult for a while, certainly, but they are not the boogie man. It probably is there policy though, that if a medical issue is suspected and medical assessment not pursued by the parents that they will go on to the next step in the safeguarding process and report to the local team. Likely that children's services won't pursue it, but they might, and the first thing they will put pressure on you to do is seek medical assessment, and if you don't possibly escalate things further. So ultimately she will probably end up going to the doctors eventually anyway, but why not save yourself and her the stress and go see the GP? Don't ask for an examination, ask for a UTI test and also possibly treat with Ovex, as sometimes it's worms that causes issues like this. Worth checking it out, not going through the stress and drama and saving the nursery and children's services the unnecessary assessment, if all turns out to be well or if it is a UTI or worms or something like that.

Could you try providing the same wipes you use at home?

The nursery uses wet wipes to clean and this does sometimes cause major irritation in that area. so why aren’t you sending her in with cotton wool or cheeky wipes for them to use instead? Even water wipes would suffice.

Just take her to the GP to make sure she doesn’t have a uti, vulvovaginitis or anything that is causing her reaction.

If the nursery was safeguarding this child they wouldn't wait for mother to get an examination off doctor they would call social services or there area safeguard lead to handle it straight away.

If nursery raised the concern in the first place I would have immediately made an appointment to rule anything out. They are probably concerned because you are being blasé about it.

GPs are not routinely trained to assess for signs of sexual abuse. They are there to treat a health issue and may observe bruising/swelling etc but I think you'll struggle to find a GP who will "sign off" on there not being sexual abuse.

They need to refer to safeguarding or not. You need to also be asking that nursery staff are supervised when they undress her and accommodate her wishes (if practicable) to be changed differently.

hi all, thank you to all of you who kindly provided their encouraging input.

Just to give an update on my situation - this morning I went back to the nursery and after dropping my daughter off to her room, I have gone to speak to one of the management team members . In this instance I told them that I will be putting in a written statement of what was said to me the day before and also asked them to put what they need and the whole situation in writing (I.e. what they are requesting of me and of the GP and the whole 48 hours turn around time and what will happen if I am not able to get a appointment in time).I did tell them that I would do my best to get a GP appointment in 48 hours but it’s not always possible and I can’t guarantee that.

I also mentioned to them that the day before I was told by the room manager who has a chat with me that the nursery staff who deal with my dd have been asked to do a written statement on what they observed during the nappy change etc - I asked for those to be either printed or shared via email with me.

After I sent my request by email to them I got a response which was worded a lot less threatening and much more collaborative than how I was spoken to the day before.

1. on the 48 hours thing this is how they worded it this time “I would like to reiterate that we are not saying that if [name] isn't seen within 48 hours that anything will happen, this was a timeframe that was suggested by the MASH team when we called for advice and not a deadline that will have repercussions if not kept to.”
2. they advised me over email that no written statements were made by the nursery staff and that maybe nursery room manager made a mistake.
3. And that they want to work together to solve this problem

In the meantime, I spoke to the gP office at length advising them of what happened, the appointment is now booked for Monday

Also rang the health visitor on the advice of some of you and got what happened noted. HV lady was really nice and asked to be kept in the loop but said I shouldn’t worry as I have done nothing wrong.

i am also doing a lot of what happened like someone suggested to make sure I have everything now documented and ready just in case - that was a very good suggestion. It certainly scarred the nursery when I mentioned that 😊

Next steps for me are to try and make it work with them - step 1 - try the potty training again with my daughter which should help alleviate some of the discomfort 2) in the meantime I spoke to them about using just water to clean her after a poo as I think she is quite sensitive to wipes and now being toddler she is protesting more when she doesn’t like something.

*
On a separate point there were a few people suggesting that I am going against the nursery advice to take my daughter to GP - that’s absolutely not the case, appointment is booked. Just to reiterate I have never had an issue with the appointment, I had an issue with how I was dealt with yesterday. For the last 10 days the girls who look after my dad said she was doing ok so I was under the impression things were getting better. And then instead of approaching me and asking me nicely to get her checked out by GP, they threatened me with 48 hours (which they now retracted) and that I have a problem with. Hope that makes sense. And previously when my nursery suggested I get ger checked by GP (this was cough related), each time I took her and thankfully it was never anything serious.

They are just trying to help your daughter 🙄

This. There seems to be a lot of middle class ‘how dare they accuse ME’ attitudes on here. A child is suddenly screaming and objecting to nappy changes which were previously fine. It’s worth investigating a UTI and keeping an eye on the situation.

‘It certainly scarred the nursery when I mentioned that 😊’ just change nursery. You coming across really unpleasantly. They are just doing what they are supposed to do.

If they called the MASH team then they have already reported you.

You need to be very proactive now showing that you are taking all of the necessary steps to resolve this issue and that your child is at the center of every decision.

I don’t really get the whole “she’s SUDDENLY objecting to nappy changes and that’s a problem” - like, this is what toddlers do isn’t it? They’re fine with something, and then they’re not because they’ve suddenly realised “hang on, I don’t like being laid down, I want to stand” or “I don’t want to be fed, I want to feed myself” or “I want to put my OWN shoes on” etc etc.
Like, they’re obtuse little buggers who just take against things.
If she had a uti it wouldn’t be during the change that she would make a fuss, it would be doing the wee surely? And if she was in pain because of the wipes then she’d be red?
Surely most 2 year olds get to a stage where’re they don’t like being laid down for a nappy change?