Is my nursery accusing me of abuse?

[Annas1237]

Hi all,

my daughter who is just over 2 years old has been going to the same nursery since she was one. Overall she has been pretty happy going and enjoys interaction with other children.

However, 2 weeks ago an incident happened where the nursery pulled me into a room when I came to pick up my daughter to report that my daughter has been refusing a nappy change and screams (more like alarming howling ) when they try to change her nappy. So obviously I was alarmed by that and at that point I suggested that maybe one of the staff unintentionally hurt her when doing a nappy change and since it’s a sensitive area she now remembers that and doesn’t trust them. The nursery uses wet wipes to clean and this does sometimes cause major irritation in that area. The nursery manager proceeded by saying that the staff is always very careful with nappy changing etc.
Then the nursery manager began by asking me whether everything is ok at home - to which I responded yes since I have not had my daughter really get overly upset over a nappy change ( she sometimes does wiggle but nothing overly concerning). Second thing they suggested is that my daughter might have a bladder infection or something else along those lines so it might a good idea to take her to gp- and since this happened on Friday, I told them that I will check to see how she is at home and make a decision on Saturday to whether to take her or not. The nursery manager was happy with that approach and we said our goodbyes and I went to get my daughter. When I came to her room and I asked a few of the key staff on what happened and as it turns out - her behaviour started after the 4th nappy change that day (which indicates to me that they are at fault here, probably weren’t careful and accidentally hurt her). But I didn’t blame them and was understanding since children can react strongly sometimes and I suggested that maybe she was sore when they used the wipes, which made it worse, especially since this happened towards the end of day.

Once we came home - my daughter was fine. On her first nappy change she did get upset (almost like she was remembering the past) but after I reassured her, but she has calmed down.

Come the next day which was Saturday, my daughter was absolutely fine, I was able to change her without a problem laying down so I decided not to take her to A&E. same thing on Sunday so no trip to doctor was needed.

The following week at the nursery, same thing happened (her not allowing them to change her nappy), her key person told me that they now change her nappy standing up as she just won’t lay down for nappy change. I told them if that works for now, just go with that approach until she forgets.

A week passed and nothing more was said to me of this issue even though I kept asking every day - the answer I got is she is still being changed standing up and she still won’t lay down.

Now just over a week later, yesterday, when I came to pick up my daughter I was asked to have a private chat. During which, I have been told that all the staff who dealt with my daughter on that day have signed a form explaining what they have been witnessing and that I need to take my daughter to a GP within 48 hours for a full examination including her private area and that I must adhere to that timeline or the nursery will have no other choice but to contact child services. The GP report needs to be sent to them either via email or printed and handed over. Obviously I was in shocked yesterday? How do we go from fussy child to this???

Obviously I will take my daughter to the GP and I feel awful that I have to put her through that ordeal (she will hate being stripped naked and touched by a stranger in this case gp) but i am left with no choice. Also I am hundred percent sure, nothing will be found in terms physically being wrong with her.

Mums, what rights do I have as a parent who has been put through this in such an insensitive and insulting way? Who do I complain to or contact? I am certain it’s their fault in terms of why my child had a reaction since as I mentioned before this happened on the 4th nappy change. It feels as though they want to pin everything on me. This has made me really upset to the point that I can’t sleep at night.. any advise on what to do next is really appreciated…

I am surprised why you wouldn’t take her without being asked if the nursery is being rough then surely you want the doctor to see as evidence and solve the problem of

It's a massive red flag for the nursery if you are refusing to get her checked out by a GP after they have advised it twice now. How many hours of childcare experience do the nursery staff have more than you? Surely they are the experts here. I agree with "mum knows best" but being stubborn about not getting your child seen by a Dr when it's been recommended by nursery is seriously odd and alarming.

This is all very strange. If the nursery has concerns that something is or has been happening to your daughter in your care, THEY have the responsibility to contact Children's Services who will decide what action to take.

Is it? I mean if the child was fine at home it's unlikely a GP would see them. Not all nursery staff are super experienced either to be honest, I agree that this time should see a GP but can't get worked up about the first time.

If it was the 4th nappy change of the day and wipes made it worse seems like its likely that has caused the soreness, but I would get them checked out and also keep a log of what the nursery have been saying and what days.

Nursery is just reacting to the change in your child’s behaviour, they are seeing a child who is getting very upset at nappy changes and this has been happening for a while now. It sounds like you are a parent who is monitoring this at home but not all children are lucky enough to have parents who do this.
Nursery probably just want the reassurance that there is not a medical issue. If this is ruled out they can manage the behaviour they are seeing with the knowledge it isn’t because there is something medically wrong such as UTI

Hi, I work in a nursery.

I think they are doing this as you said to the manager when it first happened that maybe one of the staff were not delicate with her.

They will see this as an accusation and are therefore covering their back by putting it on you.

They would have discussed what you said and know that if you would've reported that they would have ofsted coming and someone's job would be in jeopardy.

I would also say that because you didn't take your child to the GP the first time they suggested, they have grounds for raising a safeguarding issue.

We need to see parents being proactive and working with the nursery.

How long is the day? 4 nappy changes could be a lot if its in a short place of time. You could request only 2 nappy changes and only extra if she has soiled nappy. You could also provide waterwipes and cream and request that she is creamed after every change if she is sore.

I would also write out what happened yourself, saying what you said to the manager incase they do raise a safeguarding issue.

I would also ask about the environment of the nappy changes. Was it at a time when you child was engaged in an activity and they just pulled her away? Is the changing mat cold and hard? Were the staff hands cold?

Do as they ask but then look around for a new nursery. Your relationship will have broken down now I’m sure.

Neglect is abuse.

I don't think the nursery are in the wrong but neither are you. She's obviously upset for some reason. It could be the wipes. Another thought...I once looked after a little girl who suddenly hated a nappy change but then we moved to pull ups and she was absolutely fine. Maybe that could work if it's the lying down that's upsetting her?

Take her the GP for your own peace of mind and to rule anything out, such as a water infection. But the nursery don't have any legal right to make demands like that. If they want to report you to social services, based on such little information, they can and let them deal with it. I'd take the child out the nursery also.

What a nightmare for you, honestly this is unbelievable. I would, in your shoes, take her to the gp, firsty to ensure that there isn't anything like an underlying UTI (I doubt there is, most children hate having their nappies changed around this age!) Ask the gp to confirm in writing their opinion and hand that in to nursery. Once you've done that I'd then probably throw it back at them and ask which member of staff was changing her nappy each time it happened, and I would ask that it be looked into within their setting as obviously something there has set this off.

I would get the check up to follow through and then reassess from that what is the issue.
A uti.
A unhappy child who is showing normal anti nappy change behavior.
Would you supply your own wipes because of the irritation? I did because of this myself.
I can see where you are coming from with feeling off about it.
The doctors/ nurses have had many a 2yr old to strip and check.
Ask them to do a nappy change, or can you witness how it goes at daycare?
I would be.
You reminded me of the last stage of nappy changing with a anti child.

You say she's fine at home but nursery cannot witness that for themselves. All they can see is a child who gets disproportionately upset at nappy changes.
This can be normal - I have changed children who have been the same for absolutely no reason - but distress like this (particularly a sudden change behaviour) can also be a sign that something else is amiss and so nursery have a duty of care to make sure they have investigated.

If she is sore then surely you and nursery would both see redness/a rash or similar? Suggesting that maybe she has negative connotations with being changed at nursery as opposed to at home is reasonable. Getting defensive and blaming nursery with no actual evidence (like redness proving irritation from wipes) and refusing to work with them is unhelpful and will, unfortunately, raise alarm bells for them.

I'm not saying you have done anything wrong but why not take her to the GP and ensure there's no underlying cause?
Once this has been done, nursery will relax and you can find a new approach to this together.

Who can get a gp appointment in 48 hours?

First off, I'd ask them why they are continuing to use wipes that give her irritation. Send in water wipes or tell them to use flannel and water.

Then I'd counter report them and have them investigated if you believethe issue is with them, cheeky bastards.

Email them saying you need to give the GP the full picture; therefore you need their account of what happened on the day this first arose, explaining how they changed nappies earlier in the day, which members of staff did the changes, what they used to clean your child, did they see any signs of soreness, and what in particular happened on the 4th nappy change as that was the one that possibly precipitated the problem. Ask for their response today given the deadlines they have set and when the GP appointment is.

I would say they are covering their backsides if this only happens at nursery. Do take her to the gp though just to rule out anything medical and also to show that you are cooperative.

My daughter's nursery said they'll report us to the local children's safeguarding body (forgot what they are called) when we took my daughter out of the nursery. She was extremely unhappy after changing rooms there. Stopped talking and spent most of the day almost In a catatonic state according to.one staff member (though as she was just supply apparently she didn't know anything according to the nursery manager.

Once she stopped going to that nursery she was her usual happy and cheerful self again and we soon found another nursery that she loved.

Anyway, apologies for the derail. Just wanted to say that I'd take anything they say or do with a pinch of salt. I'm sure mostly they have the children's best interest at heart but I do think that a lot do them would do anything to.xover their backs. Maybe understandably so as the stakes are so high.

I'm an ex Childminder and fwiw my opinion is that they have a safeguarding concern but their delivery hasn't been great. Equally it's better they voice it than not at all. Better that 1 parent is unnecessarily investigated, than 1 child being missed, as horrible as it is.

I suspect that they thought you'd take her to the GP over that weekend. You didn't because she was fine at home. It's concerned them that the behaviour is continuing and you haven't been to the doctor. The reason for the deadline is because they need to see you acting and if you don't they need to report it. However suspected sexual abuse should be reported straight away, so I feel like they've not gone about this quite in line with what they should be doing, so possibly they're just covering their own back and just want to make sure she's checked by a professional. They'll have detailed written records about all of this with dates and times to conversations of exactly what was said. There is no chance that they won't.

I suggest you sit down and write everything out in detail for your own records. I would then put together an email outlining briefly a history of what has happened, reitterating why you have made the decisions you have. Then I would go onto say you understand they have a duty to safeguard children and you will see the GP but that as you know you have not caused her any harm, you want to make sure she's happy at nursery and is fine at home. State that she had 4 perfectly fine nappy changes at nursery on the day she became distressed. You

You could suggest that you want them to try to work out the reason behind her unhappiness at nursery and work together to resolve this.

It could be as simple as cold hands or someone holding her too tightly or maybe just because it's not you. Perhaps ask if it's always the same person changing her or if she responds differently for different people.

This isn’t about you. It’s about your child. Something is clearly wrong. So instead of messing in mumsnet get her to a doctor and make sure.

the nursery are doing the right thing.

Seriously? This is a little girl who gets very distressed when a nappy is changed and won’t lie down. And your response is take it with a pinch of salt???

You’d not take the child to the doctors. That’s shocking.

I’d be very suspicious of the nursery in this case. The incident began at nursery, not home, so it’s their responsibility to investigate the staff and what may have occurred during the nappy change that caused this reaction. I would pull my child out of a nursery who behaved this way. Their demands aren’t typical of a nursery who should be working with you to find a way that works for your child. The hint of accusations would ring alarm bells. I would take my child to the gp purely to have a record of this incident and to ensure my child hadn’t come to harm. By not doing this the nursery can protect themselves by claiming you have something to hide. To presume she is being abused without proof is not imo a normal reaction to a toddler who may be beginning the ‘terrible twos’ and just doesn’t like a particular staff member. It’s very normal for toddlers to play up during nappy changes so I find it all very odd. If you don’t feel your child is safe in their hands please remove her from the nursery and contact CS yourself to explain the situation and let them investigate on your behalf.

Take ur little one to gp and get urine infection ruled out. That's basically what they are asking you to do. They've maybe gone about it a bit heavy handed but they did suggest this previously so maybe why they've changed their approach.

What rubbish advice
Of course she will get an appointment if she explains why she needs it
I can see why nursery are concerned- they've raised this with you and advised you see a GP. You've ignored this advice and the problem is ongoing and you've basically accused the staff of causing the issue . You sound a nightmare

Very bizarre procedure from nursery. I work for a local authority childrens services - if they were that concerned then they should report as a marf, then childrens services would arrange a CP medical if they felt necessary. I'm not sure a GP would be able to do a CP medical and I'm sure nursery can't just demand you hand over a medical report!

They are in the right.

It's not great that your main concern right now is kicking up a fuss about them asking you to book her in at the doctor.

Goodness knows why you needed them to push you into it.

If something was or is amiss and the nursery hadn't voiced a concern I bet you'd be on here asking about how to sue for compensation because they'd been negligent and all that.