Page 5 | That's it. Anxiety has won. I am exhausted and can't take any more

Tulips365 · 2023-02-18T12:57:22+00:00

Hi, I honestly don't know how much more I can take. During the day I'm constantly jumping to worse case scenario and during the night, my OCD kicks in and I have awful, dark thoughts on a ^constant^ loop, including disturbing images, like a kaleidoscope of horrors. Last night I got 2 hours sleep and that was actually this morning. I had a panic attack in the middle of the night and wanted to scream. Would have done if it weren't for dp and dd. Today of course I feel like utter shit. I have avoided medication for decades, but I think I've hit the wall. I hate the idea of taking something daily and am also very wary of side effects. Mostly weight gain and numbness. I'm absolutely desperate now. Any natural remedies that actually work or am I absolutely kidding myself? Thank you.

Original poster

Tulips365 · 21/02/2023 13:23

@PolicyOfTruth thank you for your post and advice. Sounds like you've really struggled and I'm sorry you've had such a tough time on ADs, but it sounds like you've got some really good strategies now.

OP posts:

PolicyOfTruth · 21/02/2023 13:26

@Tulips365 You're welcome. We all have different crosses to bear and although I've gone through a lot in the past, I've got through it and I have a great and supportive family these days and as you say I've got strategies to get through and I'm sure you will too. Just remember that it took a long time to get to where you are, so it will take some time to get back from it. But as long as you're walking in the right direction, that's half the battle.

Chat2224 · 21/02/2023 17:57

PolicyOfTruth · 21/02/2023 11:21

@Tulips365 Hi OP. I've just joined MumsNet as I wanted to reply to your post.

I've suffered anxiety for most of my life, but the last 20 years its been very bad. I've tried a lot of different things (I've tried every single family of anti-depressants) and I still suffer from it. Like you I catastrophise and that creak I hear in the night is the roof about to rip off and that chest pain is the start of a heart attack. I see cracks in my walls that have been there for years and convince myself they're new or they've got worse and my house is subsiding. If a bulb blows then I need to rewire the house. I have to double and triple check the doors when I leave and the oven. I worry constantly about what people think etc. Right now, writing this, I'm worried that (1) I'm writing rubbish (2) That I really should be working (3) That I shouldn't have signed up to MN as social media isn't good for me (4) That I shouldn't have stripped the bed as I'll never have time to wash it and remake it (5) That I might upset people with what I write... etc etc My jaws are tight, I have a migraine, my legs are defensively crossed and my shoulders are tense.

So yeah, been where you are and I'm still there... but I am getting better.

As I said, I tried all the AD's. These impact people differently. For me, they did more harm than good. They made me suicidal, prone to very angry outbursts, unable to orgasm, forgetful, gave me restless leg and started my brain mixing words (the last two have still not cleared up amongst all the other side effects. The "positives" I got was that I was numbed and tired. I was a zombie and I was not cutting it work wise and got demoted, failed in interviews and I ended up in a bad place. I researched their efficacy and found that there's little evidence at all that a chemical imbalance is what causes depression or anxiety (the two tend to be intertwined). I'll personally never touch them again. I know some people seem to gain benefit from them and I desperately wanted a pill to fix me, but in my case, it gave me other things to worry about instead. I'm glad it works for those who it does.

I also tried beta blockers. They caused my breathing to stop, which was something I definitely worried about (having to consciously ensure you breath was not something I want to go through again). I was hopeful these would work though, but my body had other ideas

I've also tried CBT in the past and it helped a bit at the time, but I stopped doing it. I have tried some "natural" remedies including St John's Wort and Kalms. I still use Kalms as the valerian takes the edge off things. Aside from that, I take a multi-vitamin (because my diet doesn't cover everything I need as I have intolerances) and magnesium as I get migraines and don't get any magnesium in my diet and this "seems" to be reducing the severity.

Things I've found that have helped have been:

Water - If I am dehydrated, even a little, then I get anxious. I have to be careful not to drink too late in the day though or I end up not sleeping for other reasons!
Exercise - I hate doing it, but it helps when I do
DBT - Dialetical behaviour therapy (I am currently being given treatment with this via IAPT and its helping)
Mindfulness meditation - This is what has probably kept me alive and sane over the decades. Its taken me a long time to realise how to do it properly, but in the last year I've noticed my behaviours have been improving. A turning point on this was actually deciding to pay some money to learn how to do it properly. Turns out I could have just bought John Kabat-Zinn's book "Full Catastrophe Living" as that is what the training I did was based on. Now that I am doing meditation every day and not doing it to "relax" or expecting results, I am getting results. Just remembering to check in with myself and realise that I am okay - or realising that I'm not okay and that's okay too!🙂It takes time, but there IS evidence that it has a beneficial effect on anxiety, stress and depression and that it helps prevent reoccurrence. It has a load of other benefits from delaying aging (look up telomeres) and improving focus, sleep and memory.
Quitting alcohol - this was a double edged sword. I hid behind alcohol as I was painfully shy. I ended up hiding a lot behind alcohol and felt pretty naked when I stopped. I also had a lot of stuff I'd ignored to deal with, but I have been and I'm in a much better place now, but it was tough at first.
Caffeine - I quit this too (aside from now and then) and I am much less jumpy and sleep better
Long slow deep breaths - when I wake in the night I do this and I focus on my breathing. It kicks in the body's calming systems (breathing out slowly does this) and you naturally relax. You might not sleep straight away and I've once or twice spent the entire night focusing on my breathing, but your brain relaxes in the same way as sleeping when you are doing this, so it is fine with me. Also a couple of long slow deep breaths anytime you are feeling edgy helps
Checking in with yourself - during the day (and not just when you are feeling anxious), check in with yourself. Look for signs of tension and relax your body and breath deeply. There is a vicious circle of thought - emotions - behaviours. If you can break one of those (in this case the behaviours), then you help break the self fueling circle. Feeling tense makes your brain think you are tense, which makes it flood your body with "panic" (hormones) and that makes you tense up and that makes your body think you're tense and... you have to break the cycle and stop the thoughts, emotions or how your body is reacting
Thoughts - Your thoughts are NOT you. They are your brain just going through a load of things that might be threats or might be of interest or might need filing or... and then YOU react to one of these thoughts and it thinks "ah ha, I've found something I need to worry about and that is a danger to me, I need to dig deeper into this and I need to drag up past examples until I find a solution". This is the brain's job, to look for problems and try and avoid them. Trouble is, the bit that alerts you (the amygdala) is in the reptilian part of the brain and is very simplistic. It is panicking or its not. It doesn't do subtle. This is where your mammalian brain in particular the pre-frontal cortex comes in. The PFC can tell the amygdala to calm down, but it takes a moment (the amygdala is the fight or flight instant action part of the brain and it panics first). Meditation increases brain density and activity in the PFC and it decreases the size and activity of the amygdala. I'm fairly sure that my anxiety is all down to a way, way too active and large amygdala and I need to meditate more so my PFC gets better at controlling the amygdala and to shrink the amygdala... anyway, I digress
Splashing cold water in your face - turns out there are cold sensors above your eyes and lip and if they feel cold water, your body thinks you're diving underwater and it slows your breathing and heart rate. I thought this was nonsense, but it works.
Gratitude journaling - this is another thing that takes its time to work, but the simple action of putting down the positives of each day slowly train your mind to realise that its not all as bad as it fears
Setting goals and stopping avoiding the things that you fear.
STOP - Stop (literally) Take a step Back (take a deep breath). Observe (look around and inside - what's the situation and what are your thoughts and feelings). Proceed Mindfully (act on what you've observed).

I have to go back to work and I've written too much as it is. Hopefully some of this helps. I have been in a very bad place before (suicide attempts, literally rocking in a corner, considered for committal etc ) and I'm now able to hold down a stressful job and support my family. I'm not perfect, but I'm getting there.

Hope that helps and hope it doesn't upset anyone.

Welcome to MN and I’m really glad you’re here, even though you said you maybe shouldn’t have signed up. There are some genuinely great people here (like you!) so pick and choose what to listen to and what to go ‘pffft’ to, in order to keep yourself safe, but hopefully overall it’ll be a positive experience for you. It’s the only SM I have these days as I backed off all the others for my mental health and I like dipping in when I feel like some interaction. I change username a lot (I’ve been here 10 years but you’d never know it because I prefer not to be identifiable) so you could do the same to feel safe.

Aaaaanyway, I just wanted to say thank you for your post because it has some really useful wisdoms and tips. And I hope all the things you said you had going on (eg wishing you hadn’t stripped the bed) all turned out ok in the end for you.

Sending love to you (and the OP of course!) 💐

PolicyOfTruth · 21/02/2023 19:28

@Chat2224 that's very kind of you, thanks. To be honest, when I got an email saying I'd, been quoted, I assumed the worst and almost couldn't bring myself to click on the thread as I thought it would be negative. So, thanks very much.

....I still need to remake the bed and bring the drying in and do some work, but I managed to make a nice meal and set up something for my daughter. I'm just pinned down by a purring cat that wants his tummy stroked and I'm too much of a soft touch to be able to ignore him.

I've looked at some threads and part of me wants to try and help everyone, but I know I don't have enough free time for that nor do I have the answers. I don't have any SM aside from a blank Facebook page with a false name that I use to access some local information and that's it. Life's too short... Or that's what the mirror keeps trying to tell me.

Thanks again and I'll look into that name changing thing if I feel overwhelmed by it all.🙂I also need to figure out some of these abbreviations that people use...

Chat2224 · 21/02/2023 22:10

PolicyOfTruth · 21/02/2023 19:28

@Chat2224 that's very kind of you, thanks. To be honest, when I got an email saying I'd, been quoted, I assumed the worst and almost couldn't bring myself to click on the thread as I thought it would be negative. So, thanks very much.

....I still need to remake the bed and bring the drying in and do some work, but I managed to make a nice meal and set up something for my daughter. I'm just pinned down by a purring cat that wants his tummy stroked and I'm too much of a soft touch to be able to ignore him.

I've looked at some threads and part of me wants to try and help everyone, but I know I don't have enough free time for that nor do I have the answers. I don't have any SM aside from a blank Facebook page with a false name that I use to access some local information and that's it. Life's too short... Or that's what the mirror keeps trying to tell me.

Thanks again and I'll look into that name changing thing if I feel overwhelmed by it all.🙂I also need to figure out some of these abbreviations that people use...

Well done for looking at my message despite the fear it would be negative. Ooh and well done for making a nice meal and setting the thing up for your daughter.

Here’s the list of acronyms that get used in here.

www.mumsnet.com/i/acronyms

Yeah, very wise to recognise that you can’t help everyone and anyway you don’t have the time. Sometimes the most enjoyable threads are the silly, irreverent ones anyway. I’m glad you replied as it reminded me about that list you posted - I’m struggling at the moment so I need to be reminded of good habits like this to go back to self-care and not fall into that cycle of negative coping mechanisms (aka eating the wrong things) leading to worsened mental health and round the cycle again.

So, thank you again. Xx

ThePollutedShadesOfPemberley · 22/02/2023 19:04

Fasting helps me massively with anxiety and depression.

Original poster

Tulips365 · 22/02/2023 19:50

@ThePollutedShadesOfPemberley I think I do this without trying. Is fasting going without food for at least 16 hours? Glad this helps you.

OP posts:

ThePollutedShadesOfPemberley · 23/02/2023 00:09

Tulips365 · 22/02/2023 19:50

@ThePollutedShadesOfPemberley I think I do this without trying. Is fasting going without food for at least 16 hours? Glad this helps you.

I am currently on day six of an open ended fast. I will quit when my body tells me to. I felt at an all time low physically and mentally and had done for five months with the full on 'stalked by death' feeling that I have only had two times in my life before (I'm 62). All my old injury sites were killing me, even my covid vaccination sites. I felt like I was teetering on the edge of an autoimmune condition with a constant weak and frail feeling in mind and body. Today I feel like I have hit a factory reset button and feel serene and in control. I sleep well and the panic and depression has gone. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. My achilles tendon pain I have had for over a year and is the bain of my life has diminished by 50%. I have mental clarity and my generalised pain and inflammation throughout has all but gone. Even my knees that make a terrible noise when I move them have settled right down. I feel I have got some control over my life again.

Janedoelondon · 23/02/2023 00:18

WestSouthWest · 18/02/2023 16:56

Was in a similar situation to you in 2021, panic attacks, insomnia, unmanageable anxiety during the day and night. The only thing that helped was completely eliminating alcohol (made
my anxiety 100 x worse), overhauling my diet, prioritising regular exercise and having a strict bedtime/wake time including a wind down and morning routine. I am now in a better place and can identify when I am feeling overwhelmed so I can take a break and check in with myself.

I did not personally want medication although I fully appreciate this is life changing and life saving for many people. It was just my personal choice.

I am glad this worked for you, but please note not all mental illnesses can be resolved by these lifestyle overhauls and tactics. Some people need medication and have no other options.

Comments like this are part of the reason mental illness is stigmatised and so poorly understood as people think they can "solve" their illness by making lifestyle changes. Not always the case, believe me.

trythisforsize · 23/02/2023 00:23

I hadn't ever thought of meds until 18 months ago when no amount of healthy eating, exercise, time with friends, rest, gardening etc etc etc helped at all, not at all.
Apprehensively started v low dose AD's felt weird and numb for a couple of months but it was a relief from exhausting anxiety and sadness that's for sure!

My normal feelings gradually came back and within 4/5 months I could properly laugh hysterically and cry (at properly upsetting things rather than burning the toast). I feel totally brilliant on them. Just the physical aches and pains of mid-life to conquer now! I really don't ever want to give them up,

Good luck whatever you decide, but you deserve to feel normal, don't deny yourself that.

Janedoelondon · 23/02/2023 00:31

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Janedoelondon · 23/02/2023 00:39

fluffylampbear · 20/02/2023 22:38

Heard it can be a lot to do with your internal bacteria makeup! Friendly bacteria apparently make a big difference - supplements, probiotics, that kind of thing.

Also take a good look at your lifestyle - are there underlying issues making things worse? e.g. marriage, job, unaddressed trauma? worth looking in a holistic way rather than just trying to treat symptoms, if there are any deeper causes.

Oh I've heard it all now. Mental illness caused by a gut bacterial imbalance, solved by taking yakult presumably?

I appreciate comments like this are trying to be helpful but really, they are plain offensive to those of us who experience severe mental illness and are still here battling through day after day after day.

Please please please don't post about things you don't understand!!

PolicyOfTruth · 23/02/2023 01:01

Janedoelondon · 23/02/2023 00:39

Oh I've heard it all now. Mental illness caused by a gut bacterial imbalance, solved by taking yakult presumably?

I appreciate comments like this are trying to be helpful but really, they are plain offensive to those of us who experience severe mental illness and are still here battling through day after day after day.

Please please please don't post about things you don't understand!!

Show quote history

Hi. You should look at where the majority (95-97% ) of the seretonin in the body is created, as it's your gut. It's seretonin that SSRIs work on. There's the equivalent of a second brain (the size of a cat's brain) in the gut and it's connected directly to the brain by the vagus nerve. The old phrase "gut instinct" had more to it than we realised.

This seretonin production is actually impacted by your gut flora which is in turn impacted by what you eat. So, people have experienced significant improvements in their mental health through changing their diets. It might sound offensive, but it's not and it is a result of our increased understanding of the connection between the gut and mood. A good intro to this subject is the book Gut.

PolicyOfTruth · 23/02/2023 01:34

Janedoelondon · 23/02/2023 00:18

I am glad this worked for you, but please note not all mental illnesses can be resolved by these lifestyle overhauls and tactics. Some people need medication and have no other options.

Comments like this are part of the reason mental illness is stigmatised and so poorly understood as people think they can "solve" their illness by making lifestyle changes. Not always the case, believe me.

Show quote history

And again, look it up. For someone who is saying please please please don't post about things you don't understand, you don't seem to be aware of a lot of the things that are proven to help with poor mental health.

Alcohol is a poison and it also has a long term depressant affect on the brain. Quitting it can therefore help with depression. Not getting enough sleep also impacts mental health negatively. Regular exercise has also been shown to have a positive impact on mental health, not least through endorphins. Diet as I've said also impacts your gut flora which has also been shown to impact mental health.

That isn't to say - and the person you quoted didn't - that this will work for all people. What they did say it's what worked for them and their mental health condition. They acknowledged that medication is life changing and life saving for many, so I really don't understand how you think that's stigmatizing.

Mental health conditions are many and varied and some severe ones need medication but you should really read up on the latest research as you might be surprised how it is increasingly showing that there are more effective and longer lasting treatments for depression and anxiety than taking pills that we still do not fully understand.

Anyway, thanks for your posts as they've made me realise the futility of being on a social media site and they've reminded me why I quit. Life's too short for wasting time like this. That and looking through "Active" is just depressing as hell. Seems like the solution to every issue is to spend pages slagging each other and the OP off. It also seems like everyone is getting divorced.

I'm out of here, but do yourself a favour and look into this. If it doesn't help you, it might help someone you know in the future

@Chat2224 thanks for being nice. I hope you have a long and happy life. Take care.

Janedoelondon · 23/02/2023 02:42

@PolicyOfTruth I am fully aware of the steps which can help mental health challenges thank you.

However, in many cases, these steps need to be taken as part of a wider care plan for a patient, which may (or may not) involve medication.

There are huge ranges on the severity of anxiety and depression, it is not all or nothing. Lifestyle changes etc may help depression and anxiety and for milder cases, hopefully remove symptoms entirely, but for those with more severe illness, the overall impact will be lower hence further intervention may be needed.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 23/02/2023 03:09

What are some positive diet changes one can make to affect gut flora? Thanks!

Chat2224 · 24/02/2023 11:16

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune to do this, I cut out sugar, alcohol, caffeine, and dairy for a bit as per an anti-candida diet. Worked/works brilliantly for me, but nothing works for everyone.

I used this book: The Candida Free Cookbook and Action Plan: 28 Days to Fight Yeast and Candida amzn.eu/d/gq8TaZ0

@PolicyOfTruth You do what you need to do for yourself right now. You’re very wise. Thank you for what you said and I send all the same back to you. Xx

Chat2224 · 24/02/2023 11:28

@PolicyOfTruth - I’m only getting notifications on this thread when someone quotes me so I’ve just had a bit of scroll up and seen that you talk about the gut etc. You’re the only ever person I know who’s also read Gut. It’s so fascinating isn’t it! I’ve found the only real and thorough way of getting well was through diet.

@ThePollutedShadesOfPemberley - you’re speaking my language too. I am not just teetering on the edge of autoimmune disease, I’ve had one all my adult life. The dietary changes I mentioned above has been the single biggest impact on my entire system. Fatigue, anxiety, panic attacks, rashes, joint pain - all gone. Of course they creep back in if I start eating inflammatory things again (inc jab site soreness as you said).

As PPs are saying, I would strongly agree, nothing at all is one size fits all. So one person’s medication route is another person’s yoga is another person’s dietary changes. It’s got to be a ‘this works for me’ approach hasn’t it.

It’s about finding what works for you.

Sending warm wishes to everyone on this thread.