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The pronoun 'they'...

163 replies

heartbroken22 · 14/02/2023 10:05

I find it hard reading articles with they. I'm not sure if I've got a disability or something but if the article is talking about one person and it says they, my brain automatically inflates trying to make sense of it and I turn off like I'm confused. Not here to offend. But it's just hard trying to process it.

OP posts:
TheyHadGrace · 14/02/2023 19:00

It’s absolute bollocks.

I will use it if I am compelled to, I suppose, like at work when I need to be polite and can’t be arsed to make it an issue, but just know I am doing it with a massive inward eye roll and I think less of the person insisting on this foolishness.

Buttalapasta · 14/02/2023 19:07

I don’t think refusing to using they/them when most people ask you to is going to prevent the more damaging side of trans ideology.
But what if it isnt just a case of "refusing" but of slipping up? It is hard to remember which pronouns to use. I don’t think anybody should be hounded for not doing it.

Folklore9074 · 14/02/2023 19:21

new2mn · 14/02/2023 10:19

Putting aside all the political stuff, I've never had a problem with this, as I've always used "they" when the person's identity (as in actual identity, not gender identity) and therefore gender is unknown. It's a fairly longstanding grammatical tradition isn't it?

Agreed. Not sure it’s particularly mind-bending honestly.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 14/02/2023 19:21

pointythings · 14/02/2023 16:40

@Soontobe60 you're another one who believes gender = sex. There are cultures on our planet who accept there can be more than 2 genders - who are you to say they are wrong? It's a Western POV. I'm not arrogant enough to presume it is correct, are you?

For me it is a simple matter of politeness. It's a shame you can't be bothered to be polite. This is real life, we often have to interact with restraints we may not like. This is no different.

Mrs PointyThings - do those non-western cultures that have taken a plural pronoun used for how many hundreds of years, and asked that they be used for their third genders? Or do they use a) he or she dependent on outward presentation, while still acknowledging that the person is a Hijra/two spirit/Samoan fa'afafine/any other, or b) they use their languages plural pronoun?

On your second point - how many times do you interact with a person using a pronoun and not their name? Your interactions when you use them are (generally) not in their presence.

@pointythings

Bitofhelpoverhere · 14/02/2023 19:22

Climbles · 14/02/2023 18:58

Those are extreme cases and mostly I think a victims right to refer to their attacker how they wish far out weights any right to someone asking for people to use different pronouns. But when it’s Sam from next door I’m happy to respect them. I don’t think refusing to using they/them when most people ask you to is going to prevent the more damaging side of trans ideology. There is a middle ground. Trans people do exist. Young people will want to experiment with identity. It doesn’t mean when have to put them all on blockers or let them into female only hospital wards.

I actually had an example of Sam from next door, but scrubbed it as it would be immediately recognizable to anyone who knew me. Suffice it to say I know a Sam next door who is an extremely vulnerable person, with multiple vulnerabilities, who has had been trans presented to them as the ( ridiculously simplistic) explanation for all their many complex difficulties and now wants to be known by their chosen pronouns and has started on the pathway to go down the medical route.

There is no doubt in my mind that this will be utterly disastrous for this person and will compound their already many challenges. So no, I won’t use their preferred pronouns, as I do not want to play any part, no matter how small, in this young person’s train wreck journey due to this ideology. I see that as being utterly unethical.

And actually I don’t think trans people exist. Gender/ sex Dysphoria exists. And people with it need proper, informed healthcare. But even according to Stonewall, those people make up only a tiny part of the ( socially invented) category of ‘trans’.

And what you can there ‘extreme’ cases are happening all over the country, all over the world, every day, because of the social and cultural environment being created by people, politely and ‘harmlessly’ respecting pronouns.

borntobequiet · 14/02/2023 19:29

Tempone · 14/02/2023 10:22

They has always been used though? When you don't know the sex or gender you say "they ...."

Not always. In the olden days - not so long ago really - if one wasn’t sure of the sex of a person, one would say “he or she”. Gender was only a thing in language lessons, pertaining to nouns.
”He or she made off with the diamonds and police are continuing with their enquiries.”
This later became s/he for a while before morphing into they with its confusing tendencies.

NeonBoomerang · 14/02/2023 19:31

This again? Bore off

NotAnotherBathBomb · 14/02/2023 19:32

Buttalapasta · 14/02/2023 17:27

Oh so you know the poster? Thought not. Even if someone has not been officially diagnosed that doesn't mean they don't have one. What we do know is that the OP finds it confusing so maybe we should have some empathy - or are you demonstrating once again that your "be kind" actually only refers to some people?

I don’t subscribe to the ‘be kind’ slogan so you are mistaken about that.

As I explained above to another poster desperate to make pronoun use an issue, the OP’s entire tone is facetious. Down to their reply to me.

THEIR. ha.

GettingStuffed · 14/02/2023 19:32

They was often used where you didn't know if the person was make it female

grapehyacinthisactuallyblue · 14/02/2023 19:35

But you say you know that "they" means one person in OP. I don't see why you get confused when you clearly understand what the article is talking about.

MissFlimpkin · 14/02/2023 20:04

No, people are idiots.
When asking if baby was okay after a scan and I replied 'they're fine thankyou' - and met with a gasp of o wow! 'They' so there is more than 1!
I wasn't about to call my unborn child who's gender I did not know 'it' ... what are the alternatives.

new2mn · 15/02/2023 08:51

HufflepuffRavenclaw · 14/02/2023 17:39

They is used when sex is unknown "I called the teacher to say what they would say". That's all fine and standard English.

What is not standard and is clunky and awkward is a phrase like "Susan took their report to the boss. They then went for lunch and bought sushi". Who went to lunch? The non-binary Susan on her own, or with the boss? It also sounds wrong to say "X person (singlular) is writing their disseration on Art. They (plural) travelled to Paris and went to the Louvre where they saw the Mona Lisa." Because we have already established that the person we are talking about is singular, and then going on to use plural pronouns jarrs.

I find it jarring too but to oh so innocently claim you're confused to the level of having a disability is utter bollocks

Magentax · 15/02/2023 12:02

"Susan took their report to the boss. They then went for lunch and bought sushi" Who went to lunch? The non-binary Susan on her own, or with the boss?

This is just badly written though - the same issue arises with "you" which can be plural or singular depending on context. See for example:

"I see you took the report to the boss, Susan. Did you then go for lunch?"

Who went to lunch? Susan on her own, or with the boss?

If it's important that the reader knows the sentence will need to be re-written. The problem wouldn't arise if we were speaking a language with a distinction between a plural and a singular "you".

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