Help me to understand an alcoholic family member?

[FrogsNDogs]

Hi. I'm at sea with this - no experience. My sister, who has 3 teenage kids, has a serious alcohol problem. It's affecting her kids badly now. I need to get her to stop. She obviously knows there's a problem (she did give up a few years ago, but has slipped back), must be able to see what it's doing to the people she loves most in the world, and when pushed keeps saying she's going to stop by next week (or similar). She'll need to do it slowly because she's physically dependent, and says she knows how to taper. She has been to AA in the past. She always manages to reassure me that she's fine, and I relax, and then something happens which makes me realise she's anything but. But she also lies about it, all the time. Lies, and lies, and lies. I have to help, but it feels like trying to pick up a jelly with your fingers. I don't know what's up and what's down any more. So worried about her. Can't get my head around what must be going through her poor mind. What can I actually DO?

There is nothing you can do.
Any "help" you offer is just enabling her and making it worse.

I would say that the best thing is to refuse to keep secrets and to pour as much light on this as you can. Make sure that people know she is an alcoholic. Family. The school. Healthcare providers. Any other parties involved with the children.

The damage done to kids by alcoholic parents is immeasurable. They will need support and counselling (which they might be able to get through the school). The damage will follow them throughout their lives.

Sadly I have a lot of experience with alcoholics. Given the choice I refuse to have anything to do with them (I have gone no contact with alcoholic family members) because their behaviour is totally destructive and causes nothing but heartache.

I think it really will depend on what your sister wants todo. If she wants to get sober then places like turning point can support her, they have resources to support her while she’s still drinking and able to help her get into a detox program. They have groups she can attend and sign post to other organisations.
It is completely consuming for the people around them and in my experience the alcoholic doesn’t see the pain and stress they cause on others.

AA is not the only way to stop drinking, and in fact can do more damage if it doesn’t suit the person (as 12 step is pushed as being the only way, so if you fail at that, you’re done for).

Look into Smart Recovery as an evidence-based alternative. They have Family & Friends meetings (the non-AA equivalent of Al-Anon).

There’s a wealth of quit lit and alternatives to faith-based 12 step out there. She has to want to change, though. I agree with others saying that you should focus on helping the kids to cope with the situation as best as possible, because only she can help herself.

Richard Burton talks about drink problem.

@ViburnumFarreri strange idea about AA you have!I take it you have never been or tried it once or twice?AA is NOT faith based.What utter tosh! Really annoys me that people run it down,it is the most successful recovery programme in the World.

I am an AA member,been sober 20years.It works,but only if the person wants to stay sober,a lot don’t,they come to get people off their backs.

OP I suggest you contact Al-Anon for yourself.Your sister you can do nothing about,rehabs have very little success,most people relapse within a short time of leaving.They are money making schemes.

Child of a sober alcoholic here. I don’t have experience as an adult, but please please offer emotional and if needed practical support to the children. Let them stay with you if necessary, offer them safety and stability and security because home life will be anything but. Have an open line to them via text or WhatsApp and build trust with them. It will make an Enron minus difference. Good luck you sound like an amazing and caring sister. Xx

@IwasToldThereWouldBeCake
He died 5 yrs ago at home so a extensive pm had to carried out.
I am not going yo give all the details on here but but test on his liver basically said it was knackered.

@DetoxedAlcoholic
@HuntingoftheSnark
Thank you so much for your kind comments. I'm detoxing again tomorrow, I'm dreading it but can't carry on like this.
Sorry to derail your post OP. Wasn't intentional.
My son had counselling at school so your nephews/neices hopefully can access the same. He was yr 8 at the time. He didn't really engage though - I think he was embarrassed.
My ExH called SS and I had a visit but was sober so they didn't follow up.

The way to "help" an alcoholic stop is to let them hit rock bottom... and stay there until they are ready to decide to stop.

Shine a light on the alcoholism. Make it known to everyone, constantly.

Then support the children.

• Attend patents evenings for them. Remind school they are children of an alcoholic and so nee ongoing additional emotional support
• Let the children take regular restbite sleepovers with you and do normal family stuff. Model what a stable home life looks like.
• Oversee their education. Check their reading diaries, ask about homework. Do homework, read with them regularly. Follow up on letters home, note trips on your own calender - phone school and make sure trips are paid for and permission slips filled in. Remind school regularly that you do this because Mum is an alcoholic - don't hid the shame. Never make the children hold their mums shame as a secret
• Support the children to socialise without the fear if Mums drinking. Invite the children's friends to your house and host them for tea or playdates.
• Use the words "alcohol", "alcoholic" and "drunk" with the children... often. They need the language to be able to explain their lived experience. Euphemisms hinder, they create shame and perpetuate secrecy. Equip the children with adequate language to tell teachers, doctors, social workers what happens at home.

One last thing - never ask the alcoholic any questions about their drinking. They will lie so there is no point. The lying is the worse thing. On the rare occasion that "I'm sober" is genuinely true, you will never believe it anyway because of the 99 previous times it was a lie.

I m sorry for your loss xx I shouldn't have asked, sorry this thread is triggering for me too.

@Polik has written an excellent post

I was in a similar situation.

There is nothing you can do. My dsis ended up having to have a liver transplant. She did manage to stop for a few months before the op with a managed detox at home but there's a waiting list - she will need to be referred to her local drug and alcohol service. If you do any of this for her, it won't work. She needs to do it herself. Good luck.

Poliks post is good but if you have your own family they must remain your priority. You cannot take on three extra children by yourself.

Can anyone help me to understand WHY? What is it LIKE to need to drink that badly? I can't get into that mindset.

Op I am sorry you are going through this. No one really knows why some people become alcoholics and addicts. For example people are given opiate based pain killers after operations and injuries. Most people take them as directed, but some people get addicted to them.
Most people can enjoy a drink from time to time, some people become alcoholics.
Why do some people who have suffered trauma become alcoholics and some don’t?
As pps have said, please go to Al Anon and her children will find help and support at Alateen.

Asking WHY is completely pointless. You'll just drive yourself nuts. Stop thinking about reasoning with the alcoholism. You can't.

This. You won’t find the answer and it won’t stop your sister drinking.

It's just a habit that gets out of control, before they recognise it as alcoholism, their bodies and brains have developed cravings and rewired pathways excusing and explaining away their lifestyle choices. They surround themselves with other addicts and enablers to feed their delusions and allow them to give into their cravings, allow them to justify their actions...... Vulnerable narcissists.

All addicts are narcissists, put their addiction before everything else.

Sorry, this is only half true. Yes, pathways are rewired and, @FrogsNDogs , this is useful to remember as it explains some of the lying, the need for alcohol and the overriding nature of alcoholism. But addicts do not necessarily surround themselves with other addicts, I certainly didn't and didn't want to. A lot of addiction of alcohol is private, therefore OPs sister may well drink in her own home with no other interaction with alcoholics, so saying she must surround herself with others like her is misleading and muddies the water.

I understand the comment about "all addicts are narcissists" but I don't necessarily agree.

I think it's more accurate to say "all addicts are deeply selfish" because they only think of and serve themselves. In my experience they have zero awareness of how badly they affect the people around them.

My advice to anyone who is dealing with an addict is that they will destroy you without so much as a glance. It's not personal. It's just who they are. Remove them from your life.

I have had various alcoholics in my family, including my mum who 'is absolutely not an alcoholic as she goes to work everyday'. Unfortunately a functioning alcoholic is still an alcoholic and my relationship with her will never be fixed.

Also a relative who died from alcoholism. They died and it was a horrible painful death, however it's over and she is now at peace. Unfortunately she completely f*ed up her daughters.

Please interfere, call social services, ask to have custody of the kids, because the kids will know what is happening and it will impact them. You can't save your sister but please help the kids.

The worst thing about watching my mum drink is I see the pattern repeated in my brother, and my sister had various issues as do I as a result

I've got 2 uncles, and both alcoholics. Both had massive medical events in their 40s... 1 survived barely, the other didn't. 4 cousins left trailing in their wake, and all now incredibly damaged adults as a result.

The only thing you can make a difference with is for her kids and my honest response is get them the hell away from her and hope to God that the damage they've already had done is repairable...

It's not something I talk about much but in this case I think it's important to get the msg out there .

First of all you have to accept that she lies to prevent you making her stop. She is incapable of being truthful as long as she is drinking.

Secondly, however much she loves her kids, her priority is alcohol.

Her kids need a proper parent and she isn't that while she's drinking.

Is there a way her kids could stay with you? Just thinking the shock might be the one thing to help her commit to recovery.

So sorry OP. Another daughter of an alcoholic here. My mum is 4 years sober but it took 2 hospital stays and cirrhosis of the liver. It also took 26 years of drinking everyday. My childhood was completely shaped by her alcoholism and my adulthood as a result is too. Now she is sober it is almost dream like, I have my amazing mum back. But it does not undo years and years of chaos and anxiety. I used to know from the sound of her footsteps whether she was drunk or not, or from the way the house smelled when I got in. I could just look at her and know if she’d had a drink. It went from her drinking every evening after work and just about managing to hold down a job, to her losing her job and drinking morning noon and night. 3 bottles of wine a day plus brandy. We had neighbours call the police to say they suspect drink driving, trips to A&E, she fell down the stairs and hit her head, she fell on a patio at a friends party and got a black eye.
Every time we hit a new low I would think this was it, this was the moment she would stop. It took literally 26 years and her nearly dying. Please please don’t let those kids wait this out.

Can you take them? At least some nights of the week / half the week? Could they split time between their mum, you and grandparents?

you need to insist that the 1/2 nights a week she has her kids she is sober and fit to care for them. That means no alcohol on those days and nights - how can she parent drunk? Please think of them, this is so shameful and anxiety inducing for them.

you can buy breathalysers on Amazon if you need a way to show her you’re serious about insisting she stay sober when they’re in the house.

the shock of you suggesting they need somewhere else to live until she sorts herself out could be a real wake up call.

we marched my mum to the Gp one morning (held up by me and my sibling as she could barely walk) and he ran bloods at the hospital that day. Resulted in them keeping her in to drain her fluid build up, and repeated conversations with doctors telling her she would die if she continued drinking. They detoxed her in hospital for a week. We had to convince her she needed to go there to go better but it was the wake up call she needed.

she talks about drink now like a demon. an actual voice in her head telling her nothing else mattered as long as she could have a drink.

we got our mum back eventually but looking back I would do anything to help 7 year old me through the next 20+ years.

please try and step in to help your nieces and nephews xxx

I have several alcoholics in my family, I’ve found you can’t help someone that doesn’t want to help themself, you have give them little pushes, you can try interventions, but ultimately she needs to see it and want to help herself. Maybe try to get to the root of the problem, yes alcoholism is a disease but there’s always a reason why you start drinking heavily.
my grandparents were alcoholics, 1 of my uncles is and my dad is borderline...
I don’t drink, my brother not very often drinks and all of my uncles kids are very mature with it... we have seen first hand what it can do to people and those they love. You’ve just got to support her as best possible.