Any dairy farmers please?

[RedRedWhiney]

I'm pescitarian.

Have been slowly consuming less dairy. This to me seems so horrific to immediately stop consuming any dairy.

However, Google search shows the extremems of the debate, so I would really value the input of dairy farmers

Arla for example have very high welfare standards- higher then organic standards.

Only if they were brutal farmers. Most farmers I know take animal welfare very seriously.

Yes. A close relative works on a dairy farm who has a contract with Arla - they have monthly milk recording, milk testing on every collection, regular welfare checks, and they also have on-farm meetings with other farmers to compare and discuss methods that work well - from grass management to calf rearing.

All my family are dairy farmers, mostly organic now. I can promise you these cows are happy healthy an well treated. Free to roam all spring summer an autumn, they run in to get milked and stand very patiently and happily. The welfare standards are very high, cows live 10-15 years, no chemicals allowed or used. AI is not much different to pessary, and much gentler than a bull.

Boy calves are raised till a year old then sold on. None get shot at birth. From what I’ve seen most cows and calves separate happily, though I saw one distressed and it was heart wrenching.

The land here can not be used for crops. We’ve tried several times and it’s only good for growing grass.

Cows drink a lot of water, but water is plentiful in the U.K. You can’t compare to almond milk as almonds are grown mostly in California and they totally deplete the water table there, hot countries are needed for almonds and there typically isn’t enough water there.

If you want to avoid dairy oat milk is a much better option, and has a much lower carbon footprint than almond.

if you’re concerned about animal welfare opt for organic milk. The standards are very high.

If you have welfare concerns, then seek out a small local producer who has their herd welfare as a priority

Its still in everything premade though. Until you give it up you don't really realise how much of what you buy in the supermarket contains milk/whey powder as an ingredient. Like nearly all confectionery, crackers, cakes, many crisps, loads of dips/sauces, potato wedges... same with egg. Even the bloody guacamole over here has egg in it.

On the plus side, it does force you to eat healthier If I had unlimited access to Cherry Ripes I'd be the size of a school.

Correct

70% of all farm land is only suitable for growing grass, and without livestock how would you feed the soil?

My mum is a beef farmer. I grew up milking cattle. I eat meat and dairy. Don't straw man me.

I don't know about where you are, but where I am, there is a lot of good land given over to farming cattle. Land that is also sometimes used for canola or oats. Yes, some land can only be used to run hardy breeds of cattle or sheep, but most of the land that cattle is raised on can be used more efficiently for other purposes. It's a fairly simple energy equation.

I've never seen a dairy that didn't feed grain with every milking. Grass alone is not sufficient for dairy cattle.

Actually, worldwide, only 65%of the land that grows ruminants cannot be converted to crop land. Pasture feeds only 13% of the world's beef production. The rest is cereal-fed beef. Obviously this varies a lot from nation to nation.

@tootiredtobother
it takes over 600 litres of water to produce a litre of cows milk.
It’s hardly a good environmental choice

Unfortunately you are right. I now try to shop differently and it is possible but expensive. Companies like Abel and Cole are offering a much wider selection of foods than their original veg boxes so it is possible at a price. I wish there was a supermarket chain that only stocked organic high-welfare foods as just now one needs to hunt around for the products.

Buy milk from the local milkman and you can have a little walk/drive and look at the cows, how they live etc. I can see mine from the window, they have the calves with them, they have a good quality of life. Don't buy from supermarkets and do not buy imported milk.

There is nothing wrong with milk from the supermarkets. Our farm supplies the supermarkets via Arla and Arla has very very high welfare standards

How is the 600 litres of water per litre of milk calculated?
Given an average cow produces 25 litres of milk per day, then each cow woulding be consuming 1500 litres of water per day!!

It does not make logical sense!

Unless you are using some calculation based on rain to make the grass grow ... which would be falling anyway 🤔

Google says 60-120 litres consumed by a dairy cow per day.
For the 25 litres produced, double that in pre/post processing, so maybe 50 litres water in other ways + 100 litres water per day to get 25 litres of milk. 150:25 is 6 to 1 ratio.

It's probably no worse than amount of grain (in kg) a cow must be fed to get 1 kg of meat out.

... and some of that water cow drinks must be weed & sweated away. Unless we're begrudging the cow fluids it needs to stay alive.

IsItBedtimeYetNope · 12/02/2023 19:12
OP why not research into the fish farming industry you support as well? And the egg industry? Dairy is not the only problem with being pescetarian.

This. Chicken and fish farming are appalling industries.

I’m currently reading 60 harvests left by Philip lymbery, on the place of animals in the context of agriculture and soil health. Really interesting read!

Because it’s not just drinking water is it? It’s all the water used in dairy production.
washing down parlours, cleaning, (grey water) as well as feeding and drinking. It’s the total cost in litres of water that need to be put into the dairy system to generate milk as an end product, and it’s far, far more than that out into any plant based milk.

there’s plenty of research on it

But in places like the UK where water is generally plentiful what does it matter how much water a dairy uses?

the issue is the amount of water needed for crops where water isn't plentiful - the impact on the local environment and people of taking the scarce water to grow non essential crops.

Don't forget that all the grey water gets reused

It's very unlikely that there is any milk imported into the UK

Absolutely correct

Grass alone is absolutely sufficient for milk prouduction in lower yeilding herds, grain is often fed in modest amounts to higher yeilding herds