Any dairy farmers please?

[RedRedWhiney]

I'm pescitarian.

Have been slowly consuming less dairy. This to me seems so horrific to immediately stop consuming any dairy.

However, Google search shows the extremems of the debate, so I would really value the input of dairy farmers

It's not.

Yes, it's adults who have a genetic mutation to enable them to consume cow's milk throughout their lives.

The researchers note there are other populations (Mongolia with yaks) who consume milk but it is N.European population that underwent a rapid evolutionary alteration.

Rather drink full fat milk

There’s a good series about farming on Amazon. The most recent, whilst not focusing on dairy, has quite a bit of content on cattle farming.

there are really interesting links between milk proteins and allergies. Trials happening now use a micronutrient found in whey protein which reduces hay fever symptoms by up to 40%.

I think there is still more that dairy farmers can do to improve efficiency, reduce pollution and improve animal welfare but as in any industry, the best & most proficient farmers are constantly working on that. Using modern tech as well as traditional regenerative farming approaches.
Really the only way to decide if you want to support British dairy farming is to visit a few farms & producers and see for yourself.
You could also choose to just buy organic & local, which is what I do.
And we can all do our bit in any food we buy to reduce waste - the amount of land and energy wasted & pollution created to get food into homes where it just goes in the bin is truly shocking.

Yours is the sort of farm produce I’d like access to. I find it so difficult to get calf-at-foot milk/butter/cheese or as natural as possible bred beef like you describe.
We’re not a well off household, but I’ll pay the extra for the animal welfare and environmental sustainability.

Cows in the UK are not fed antibiotics

Milking is not painful except for maybe the first milking or 2 after calving much like we get engorged after giving birth.

They are not milked until they bleed 🙄

Disagree with dairy farming if you want. There are plenty of genuine arguments against it - you don't need to make up bullshit

Actually, we could feed more people with a lot less land if we ate a lot less animal product. Some isn't human grade, yes, but there is a lot of land used for feeding animals that could be used far more efficiently to feed humans directly. My personal solution is not to not animal products, but to eat a lot less animal products, and make it nice /enjoyable when I do.

Having said that, dairy products are far more efficient from a greenhouse gas / energy / land perspective than beef!

The BBC did a documentary on dairy called A Cow’s Life

Im not sure if it’s on Iplayer but might be worth a watch?

Watch Dairy is Scary on YouTube,

It's also really unhealthy for us.

Then watch Cowspiracy on netflix.

Then never touch dairy again. Please give up fish too.

How did you work that out? That's not true at all unless you are talking about vertical farming and really intensive arable etc which will destroy the land and environment and use a lot of chemicals etc.

Please listen to us farmers. We do know what we are talking about.

The lady wants facts. Not doctored fiction. Both of these programmes are full of total rubbish, edited footage and set up situations.

No it's not. It's typical biased bbc rubbish and saw the crew stressing out animals etc. We as an industry have spoken out against it.

If it is all BBC bias then why did the Red Tractor scheme remove one of the farms featured?

redtractorassurance.org.uk/news/red-tractor-statement-on-bbc-panoramas-a-cows-life-the-true-cost-of-milk/

It is also quite scary that this farm took so long and bad so many incidents before being prosecuted that it shows we don’t exactly have the standards that I think people assume we do

news.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk/2022/09/23/dairy-farm-fined-52000-for-cruelty-to-cows/

Hang on. I'm not denying that there was a bad farm featured. But what I am saying is it isn't representative of the industry. Also what it did show is those few bad farms (less then 1 percent of the industry) are dealt with and published.

One bad teacher doesn't make all teachers bad.
One neglectful care home doesn't make all care homes bad.
One awful farm doesn't mean that all farms are awful.

I also know the 2nd farm you mention. It's local to me. What that article doesn't tell you is that local farmers had been aware of that farm for a while and had taken a stand against them. We had pushed for the council etc to investigate. Farmers do not accept bad farms and that farm is certainly not representative of other farms in this area and I am appalled that you would claim that it was.

I said that we should question our legal standards if that farm takes so long to be prosecuted and has to have so many incidents before it is prosecuted. It does make me wonder if there are other farms in this position and if so much pushing ad to be done locally. Then it’s hard to imagine that is the only situation in the UK where the standards aren’t met but prosecutors aren’t doing enough?

My other point is that you said it was all BBC bias when it isn’t if the Red Tractor gets involved and removes a farm.

If you start googling cruelty towards cows it isn’t an isolated incident either

sites.southglos.gov.uk/newsroom/community/18-month-sentence-and-lifetime-ban-follows-animal-cruelty-prosecution/

www.fwi.co.uk/news/crime/teenager-sentenced-cruelty-cattle

Is there a list of dairy farms in the country, I wouldnt know where our local one is, or in fact if there is a local one

Its a 2 hour drive to the closest 'cowcalf' dairy from the link in a previous post.

We're watching Clarksons Farm which is really highlighting the issues for farmers and the work they do.

One of my dds works for a very large dairy farm, about 1500 cows, contracted to a supermarket. The cows are out most of the year, they have to use AI but with sexed semen so female calves are produced, and a beef bull runs with them to catch any of the ones that didn't take with AI. So no male calves are shot at birth or go for veal. They are quite small cows (many jersey x) and often live into their teens.

Stressed animals are not productive, it is in the farmers' interests to keep them well and happy. A cow in pain will not produce as much as a contented one. As has also been mentioned, dairy cows have been bred for generations to produce milk and my observations, from calving heifers, is they really aren't that fussed when the calves are removed. Certainly far less bothered than horses which remain distressed for many days if they lose a foal.

There are bad farmers everywhere, just as there are bad dog breeders or anyone else involved in the commercial production of animals, but the majority will be proud of their stock and look after them.

We buy organic milk and dairy because of the higher welfare standards required for it: www.soilassociation.org/take-action/organic-living/what-is-organic/organic-milk-dairy/?gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXSEAsVvBR2j3QDun5A8Tg6HSbJgYAu8x5nbVDZRMjPVTq4ZcMGIA1oaAghUEALw_wcB

How do you propose growing crops on the Welsh hills, grazed by sheep which produce lambs?

Nip up there with a tractor & plough the ancient soil?

You need to take some water with your tofu. Utterly bonkers uninformed bollocks.

The welfare standards are the good whether organic or not organic. Milk buyers etc have higher standards then the soil association.

I've worked on organic and conventional farms and there isn't really any difference .

Really? That's interesting to know because I had heard the opposite. Which milk buyers?

Meat has the highest ratio of protein to calories and so me and others on high protein diets need to utilise it.