Please help. I really hate having a teen daughter.

[MsAnnThropic]

My daughter is 13.5 , so only just into her teenage years, and I am finding it such hard work.

She stomps around the house, winding her siblings up, or just whacking them for fun. She refuses to help around the house at all and will take anything she wants, whether it's hers or not.

She is so angry all of the time, and frequently tells me what a shit Mum I am. I am really, really struggling.

I thought maybe she just needed some big girl time, so took her to our nearest city last weekend for shopping and dinner (her choice). I thought we'd had a lovely time, but she's been even more vile this week.

I feel so guilty, but she's going on a football camp for three days this half term and I can't wait. The atmosphere in the house is so much nicer when she's not here. It's like everyone breathes a huge sigh of relief. I feel horrible writing that.

Any tips on coping? Helping her...or me? I really don't know how I'm going to cope with the rest of the teen years 😞 (it doesn't help that my youngest isn't sleeping, so am extra sleep deprived). I just want to run away!

Again, I'm not making any accusations or assumptions about anyone. But I know for sure that my teenage years, and those of my peers, were hugely influenced by the home environment we were made to live in. Good and bad.

Renebums what would you consider to be an ideal home environment which was all good and no bad?

What were the key factors, out of interest? What kind of home environment would help create happier teenagers? Genuine question as you're hinting at it but but saying directly!

*but not

We have a rule that it’s okay to be moody, it’s okay to feel angry etc but in communal areas of the house you have to be polite. If you can’t be polite, you go to your room. Anything else is natural consequences, don’t put your washing in the basket, then it won’t be clean, don’t want what’s for dinner then cook yourself something, late for school, take the detention etc. Be rude to us and then expect us to do you a favour err no. However DD in public is an angel, when in desperation at home when she was kicking off I said, well you’re not like this in public, she looked at me bemusedly and said err no, you’d go mad at me…. Well at least she knows where the line is!

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

What are you even talking about? Of course it’s luck it’s down to temperament.

I also have a 13 year old who is very well behaved for the sheer fact that’s just his personality. It’s not my exceptional parenting. My daughter is different and no I will not just duck out of parenting and accept a badly behaved teen because “that’s just the way she is”.

Nope!!! Zero tolerance.

I'd say you can also hold onto the thought it probably won't be her entire teens - most I've known who have been assholes in their early teens sort it out a bit and are nice by the time they're about 16!

Clear, firm boundaries... but let them have their independence and make a few mistakes without too many consequences.
Rudeness is a complete no

Unless there’s an underlying cause (could there be something?), it will in all likelihood improve as she moves from dependent child to independent adolescent/adult. Since mine reached mid teens (15ish) things have improved immeasurably, she is a delight and she now talks to me about her younger self and we can have a bit of a laugh about what a nightmare she was (and she really was). But who knows what is to come? I’m not getting complacent.

She does say that underneath it all she knew she was being horrible, but she just couldn’t help herself; that then made her feel even worse, which then made her ever more angry. But really she was feeling sad and scared and a bit lost.

Seemed to be a combination of hormones, the pull-push of wanting independence but also finding it daunting, tensions with peers (nothing major, but enough to make her feel insecure and vulnerable) and of course COVID threw a whole bunch of other stuff into the mix. Being super-strict and disciplinarian would definitely not have helped us; she already felt terrible and it would have been fuel on the fire - she didn't like herself much, and the last thing I wanted to do was make her feel like no-one else liked her either.

I prefer natural consequences over punishments. Picking your battles (hurting another person would definitely be a battle worth fighting; undone household chores - not worth the energy). Keeping communication open. Being available - mine would open up at the most inconvenient times, but really needed me to be there. It’s not an original suggestion but going on drives together, esp quite late at night, was a lifesaver for us. Don’t take it personally - this was really important for me.

In the wise words of Baz Luhrmann “Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance, so are everybody else's”

Oh, and I'd definitely recommend Better Things on BBC iPlayer for a bit of light relief, and a sense of solidarity with another mum of teenage girls

My point is a lot of it is down to luck and personality, which ok is genetics but not often environment.
Take toddlers, some hit -do you think those parents all hit them, all go round hitting people ?! It’s luck.
The males on my side of the family all tend to be a bit depressive and moody- doesn’t mean they didn’t grow up in happy homes. Some children are more affected by their hormones. The zero tolerance for some may be telling them off once and it’s dealt with, for others it’s 24/7 backlash and arguing.

I have one of 16 and one of 13. I find what often comes with the stropping is an undertone of relief that they’ve found where the boundaries are. When they’re not sure they are worse because they can’t find the edges.

Ok.

Homes where the kids were respected, given a reasonable amount of freedom and equal responsibility, not assumed to have all negative feelings put down to "teenager", stability and calm at home...kids were really not a trouble during puberty.

My home was one of endless screaming argument, abusiveness and violence. Any unhappiness I expressed was put down to me being a moody teenager. My parents would give a heavily bowdlerised account of this to anyone outside the home, making out that they were absolutely perfect and I had no right to be unhappy, and any negativity I expressed was clearly because I was a moody teenager.

I realise these are two ends of a spectrum and like I said, I'm not making any accusations or assumptions. I'm only saying that the way we were being parented really did make a huge difference to how we acted at home, although of course we always had this type of parenting since we were born...it's all cumulative. I wasn't a mouthy, disobedient nightmare at home because I was naturally born that way. Had I been raised like my friend Tara, I'd have been much more like her. I'd have been naturally more highly strung and dramatic, much like her sister actually, but overall I'd have been fine like she was. Because I would have had modelling and coping mechanisms taught to me by example, and home would have been a safe space.

I know teens can be a right pain in the arse and completely unreasonable, but frankly so can many grown ups. I do think that there is a tendency to dismiss teenagers' feelings as "just adolescence" rather than look to why they feel the way they do and why they act the way they do. It doesn't mean you have to accept it, or that they're right, but at least giving their feelings some validity and understanding why they feel as they do, will always be more helpful than just dismissing them as monsters who will definitely see you were right as soon as they're clever enough.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

So…. Nature/Nurture?

I mean that is pretty fascinating and you do wonder how much is down to each. I believe in temperament for sure, but it is manipulated via the environment that the child resides within and also parenting styles.

@ReneBumsWombats

Validation is important, crucial even. But there is a line whereby you can over validate to such an extent that the child uses this to their advantage and then begins to manipulate the parent. I think we’ve made huge gains as a society on validation but as always….. balance is the key word. Look it up, it’s currently an ongoing topic of research within adolescent mental health it’s pretty fascinating.

www.drpsychmom.com/2021/03/06/dont-compulsively-verbalize-and-validate-your-kids-emotions/

But there is a line whereby you can over validate to such an extent that the child uses this to their advantage and then begins to manipulate the parent.

The parent, as the grown up, shouldn't be allowing this to happen. If it does, that's their fault. I'm not saying I'm a perfect parent or everyone needs to be a perfect parent, but none of us will improve or solve issues if we aren't very clear on what responsibility belongs to whom.

But like I said, the teen years are a cumulative effect of everything that happened before then.

It's always surprising to me when people expect a 14 year old or whatever to be better at regulating their emotions than the parent. It shouldn't surprise me, because I was raised on it, but it does.

You're the parent, so you need to handle and model the regulation. If you don't know how to validate your children's feelings without letting yourself be manipulated, and I accept it can be hard, then the answer is for you to read up on techniques and try to analyse yourself to see how you can do it. It's not to decide your kids' feelings don't matter, or that the responsibility is on them.

I'm not a huge fan of authoritarian parenting. Yes, I know sometimes you have to put your foot down. But if you've managed over time to let your child understand why you do what you do - ie, you allow or don't allow things based on what's good for them - then it becomes easier for them to accept what you say. Because they know you're doing it for their benefit, not Because I Said So.

Even if your child really is completely unreasonable and arsey (and aren't we all sometimes?), you will always have a better idea of what to do about it if you understand why. Again, you don't have to accept it or reward it. But knowing it will always equip you better for it than if you just go in assuming they're just a moody teen, their feelings aren’t valid and it's pointless trying to do anything about it because that's just how they are.

@ReneBumsWombats

Who said they were allowing this?

I think you are heavily projecting your own experiences as a child to be honest. Some parents do need help with validating their children, it may not come naturally to some parents if they were raised in emotionally barren homes. We need to help those parents, not shame them even further. They often then over validate their children and parent upon guilt. I think a little empathy wouldn’t go amiss.

We all look to our own experiences to shape our views. That's not unique to me. I would be an idiot not to try to learn from my parents' shitty example, and Tara's parents' excellent one.

Actually, I think you're projecting, because you seem to think I'm directing this at someone in particular ("who said they were allowing this?"). I'm not and I've made it clear I'm not making any assumptions or accusations about anyone on here. I'm talking completely in the abstract and generic.

And I haven't shamed anyone either (again, I think that's your projection). I've accepted that I know it can be hard, and nobody is perfect. But as I said, it won't get better until the parent realises that the responsibility for the technique lies with them. That's just a fact. I would certainly hope that anyone who does look to use this technique would not be shamed in the process...if they are, you're looking to the wrong tutor because it's the ultimate anti-shaming strategy. But I can't deny that it is the parents' responsibility, because it is. We are the grown ups. If we can't do it, how's a confused, developing 14 year old going to manage?

@ReneBumsWombats

I am not projecting. Lost potentially on the flow of topic maybe. We do parent from our experiences but when you’ve worked within MH services, specifically for teens and children, you gain access to a LOT of information, usually quite conflicting.

You also meet lots of kids and families and so your parenting is also shaped by that too. I am simply commenting on trends that I have seen over the years. The over validation one and parenting on guilt does seem to be cropping up quite a lot.

Like I said, if the parents can't validate their children's feelings without being manipulated or also teaching them how to regulate them (best done through example), then the parents need to learn the technique better. Parenting is their responsibility. I know it can be hard, I know we all make mistakes. But it's still their responsibility.

If that's shaming then, well, nothing I can do. I'm sorry if the truth offends people.

@ReneBumsWombats

I don’t think anyone has said it’s not their responsibility. Many parents come for help, but they’re the lucky ones. It is usually not available. Systemic family therapy is like gold dust on the NHS. I think you’ve confused zero tolerance with authoritarian parenting? You can have firm boundaries whilst still being very much authoritative.

It's not really surprising that you are wary of this approach, because you are continually trying to invalidate me in this discussion by accusing me of "projecting", which is just a popular, current and rather lazy way of saying my view is worthless. And now "confusion". Can a formerly abused child and teenager not have a valid contribution to a discussion about difficult teenage behaviour?Not sure I like this approach if it really is what's current in mental health services. Can't say it gives me much faith. But I'm hard pushed to think how understanding your teen's thought process - even if you don't agree with it - could ever not be helpful in trying to address challenging behaviour.At any rate, I've laid it out there. People can decide for themselves whether I'm too confused and projective for my thoughts on this to be worth any consideration. But if what you're doing isn't working, well, we all know the definition of madness.

Keep her really busy - of you can afford it, enrol her in as many classes and activities as possible - even better if not with school friends. The more friendship groups the better, the more she is thinking about her activities the less she's moping. And encourage at least one activity that gives something back - guides is great for this, being a young leader etc, or if she swims/rides, see if she can be a helper for the younger ones. It really teaches a sense of responsibility.

Another good option is cadets. My friend runs her local air training corps and the difference in the kids is quickly very apparent.

OP I'm not going to join the argument about the best approach, as I haven't a clue. But just here to give you a hug and handhold and solidarity. I have similar with my almost 13yo DD, and the effect it's having on me is drastic. I am really sorry for her, she's incredibly stressed, anxious and angry and I know it's hard for her too, and I want her to get through it for her own sake. But I'm also struggling myself, a lot. I'm crying a lot, have had to go to the GP for help and have had to drop my hobbies as I'm spending so much time trying to help/deal with her. It's like she has reverted to a particularly stroppy toddler stage but is 3 times the size.

I'm trying to stay calm and be firm with consequences/rewards etc about the behaviour, but understanding and supportive about the feelings. But it's incredibly hard to do and I know I've been horribly inconsistent.

I'm trying to tell myself this is something we're going through and will come out of. I cling onto tiny things that make me happy like using my favourite mug, or the precious couple of hours in the late evening when she's asleep and I can de-stress a bit before bed. I've reached out to friends and told them I'm struggling and people are being supportive and kind. That's all the tips I have but it also helps to know I'm not alone, I hope it does for you too.