Well this nails the SUV culture war colours to the mast

[QuertyGirl]

I can tell you now, they will have thought long and hard about who this will appeal to and why.

Like a cyclist needs to be 'warned' of the presence of a hulking great SUV.

One for the RageRovers among us.

www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2021/07/07/bully-klaxon-or-sweet-toot-suv-maker-ineos-grenadier-has-cycle-icon-on-steering-wheel/?sh=4ab3463445ae

Cyling doesn't give you autonomy or freedom.

It isn't an efficient or legitimate form of transport.

It's suitable for ONE person, without any luggage, to travel short distances in good weather.

It is not efficient.

Onefinemess, your ability to drive any sort of car is utterly dependent on government-controlled, government-subsidized systems, especially since it’s dangerous to stockpile more than very small amounts of petrol at home.

If you really want to be all OFF THE GRID, FREE, INDEPENDENT, THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT GET TO CONTROL ME, you should forget cars and get a horse, and some land for grazing it and growing its oats and barley.

That would be insane, of course, but at least it would be logical.

If you don’t want to go that far, you are actually far less dependent on government-controlled systems if you live in a dense urban area and are able to bike/walk to most of the things you need.

(Not least because physically fit people who live in urban centers at dense concentrations are going to be the ones who are in a position to protest any sort of government overreach. Not flabby suburbanite motorists who live on the edges of cities miles from the center of power. Sorry to sound like I am laboring the point, but I am just fascinated at the weird contradictions of those who are obsessed with making their lifestyles as physically inactive and car-bound as possible because THIS MAKES ME FREER AND PREVENTS TYRANNY BY GOVERNMENTS).

@onefinemess @Margrethe

May I present to you both, this fact:

THE NETHERLANDS EXISTS

@onefinemess

Welcome to 2023:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike

We have a bike each, so it is an efficient mode of transport.

I cycle to work, 10 mins, whatever the weather. If it’s raining, I have waterproofs.
If I went by bus, it would cost £2 each way and take approx 40 mins (10 mins walk to bus stop then the bus is caught up in all the car traffic).
Cycling is by far the most efficient, cheapest, quickest & most environmentally friendly method of transport

Sorry to sound like I am laboring the point, but I am just fascinated at the weird contradictions of those who are obsessed with making their lifestyles as physically inactive and car-bound as possible because THIS MAKES ME FREER AND PREVENTS TYRANNY BY GOVERNMENTS).

Forgetting the tyranny part as I don't believe that, using my car does give me far more freedom and is much safer than riding a bike.

Public transport would add a couple of hours to my commute each day, not something I'd be prepared to do. I certainly wouldn't take a job that involved hours of commuting (I'm looking at the moment and agencies seem surprised though!) so I won't be doing it for the job I currently have.

Riding a bike wouldn't be safe. I have two practical routes, one involves a lonely unlit tow path and the other one an unlit winding road. Add to that the potholes and I wouldn't want to cycle in the summer, let alone the winter.

Oh, and I have a large basket on the front & panniers on the rear rack, so I’m good for luggage too!

@Margrethe

www.surgebikes.co.uk/best-electric-cargo-bikes/

@Margrethe

www.cyclesprog.co.uk/cargo-bikes/best-electric-longtail-cargo-bikes-to-carry-kids/

@DataNotLore , indeed it does! I lived there for 2 years. Owned a bike. Used it for everything.

I was a single, young adult. The Netherlands has a different topography, and a different urban landscape.

The UK is different. It will need it’s own unique solution involving compromise from all sides.

You are being ridiculous to propose this is an appropriate solution for all families.

Not all - but a lot of families. It's getting increasingly common where I live.

Why is it ridiculous?

And I'm a middle aged, married working mum.

We love our cargo bike- in a UK city.

It isn't an efficient or legitimate form of transport.

Do you know what legitimate means?

It's suitable for ONE person, without any luggage, to travel short distances

And therefore a much more appropriate way for people to travel to work (assuming they live a short distance from work, which I agree many people don't) than as the single occupant of a car. It's an entirely legitimate form of transport; efficient, too, for that purpose.

And a car isn't an appropriate solution for all families either.

I disagree.

Cars arw not just used to commute.

I cover the whole country for work. I have to travel to Norwich next week. From rural South Wales.

Cycling isn’t even an option for me, and certainly wouldn’t be the quickest or most efficient way for me to get around. It isn’t even the best way for me to get to the station on the rare occasion I travel by train. 😂

A gallon of petrol is 34,000 calories & will travel about 45 miles or so on that gallon of fuel.... considerable less in a large SUV... will emit poisonous gasses, its extraction and refinement is destroying the worlds climate, they destroy the roads they need.... plus they often get stuck in traffic jams where they remain stationary for many hours.... i could cycle 700 miles on about 30,000 calories...

One could argue the bicycle is extremely efficient & of course its a legitimate form of transport... because our elected Parliament has deemed it to be.

I suggest you lobby your MP if you wish it to be otherwise.

@GCWorkNightmare Well of course there are exceptions but the vast majority of car journeys are very short.

The average length of a car trip however is unchanged between 2002 and 2019, at 8.4 miles per trip National Transport Survey.

Bare in mind thats an average, so many will be well under 8 miles & with E-Bikes helping with the hills there really is little excuse to be using a car for such short trips.

Soon most cars won’t be powered hy fossil fuels. So those arguments are out the window.

Short journeys are impractical for:

• a new mother taking her newborn to a well baby check
• a parent taking the team’s hockey goalie to practice or a match
• a grown child taking an elderly relative to a health appointment
• an adult doing the weekly shop for an entire family
• at home health carers trying to efficiently visit as many clients in a day as possible and carrying along their kit and supplies
• etc

A bicycle is a valid form of transportation for some people in certain situations. It does not replace a car.

We would be far worse off as a society without cars. Vulnerable groups would be completely marginalised; our economy as a whole would be less efficient and we would all be poorer.

The future needs to include bikes, cars, mass transport, and pleasant efficient paths for pedestrians. It’s not a zero sum game, but our road space is. Everyone is going to have to compromise. No one has a greater moral right here.

Bare in mind thats an average, so many will be well under 8 miles & with E-Bikes helping with the hills there really is little excuse to be using a car for such short trips.

There is when the roads aren't safe. If anyone thinks I'm making my admittedly very short journey to work in anything other than my car they can think again.

@Margrethe

• a new mother taking her newborn to a well baby check

They came to my house. That is standard.

• a parent taking the team’s hockey goalie to practice or a match

Why not? Don't get this.

• a grown child taking an elderly relative to a health appointment

Taxi

• an adult doing the weekly shop for an entire family

My DH did exactly that this morning- on a bike

• at home health carers trying to efficiently visit as many clients in a day as possible and carrying along their kit and supplies

Only one out of your list that probably needs a car. Everyone else should get off the road to get out of the way.