The death penalty is unpopular on here but ...TW child abuse

[Tamarindtree]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11652805/Couple-face-jail-torturing-children-starving-pushing-boiling-showers.html

Lengthy sentences don’t cut it for me. Whilst in prison they can eat, laugh, sing, feel warm and have medical and dental care etc as well as relive and relish in their minds their evilness towards the children.

The children have a lifetime of healing.

@EileenAdler the police in the Kiszko case coerced a confession - and that would certainly be considered 'compelling evidence'. They knew he could not have committed the crime because they knew the sample taken from the victim was of fertile semen, whereas Kiszko was sterile. They still went ahead.

I ask again: given what we are hearing about crimes committed by police officers, why do you want to trust them in a situation where the death penalty might be an option? And how many lethal miscarriages of justice would be too many for you? There is no 100% safe way of reintroducing the death penalty.

Aren't they put into VPUs to protect them from the other prisoners?

It bothered him. He opposed the death penalty towards the end of his life, after a lifetime of being up close and personal with it. This is what he said about hanging:

"... is said to be a deterrent. I cannot agree. There have been murders since the beginning of time, and we shall go on looking for deterrents until the end of time. If death were a deterrent, I might be expected to know. It is I who have faced them last, young lads and girls, working men, grandmothers. I have been amazed to see the courage with which they take that walk into the unknown. It did not deter them then, and it had not deterred them when they committed what they were convicted for. All the men and women whom I have faced at that final moment convince me that in what I have done I have not prevented a single murder."

The Police do not try or convict , they are not judge and jury. In his case his defence would have had a strong case of deminished responsibility. Strong enough to avoid execution.

Likewise. The recent cases where young defenceless children have been tortured and then murdered are beyond any reproach.

Didn’t stop him pulling the leaver for 25 years, did it. His record was 7 seconds.

Lever, sorry

Teleport him to 2023....a different era....would he be that keen then?

It's not comparable

@EileenAdler juries and judges have to act on the evidence. Manufacture evidence and you get miscarriages of justice. They happen in the US all the time. Especially to people who are not white. Your faith in the system as it currently works is misplaced.

It is a spurious argument as we are not going to reintroduce the death penalty.

I could never support the death penalty.

You are right. I have no faith in a system where convicted murders walk free after only serving 8 years. Perhaps we should bear in mind that they killed an innocent person. How sick is that.

I used to be dead against it but now couldn't really care less but I'm very jaded.

As a parent I can totally understand how you would need someone who killed your child to be killed so I would want that for anyone who did that to my child. Biased yes of course but now I know how all the other parents must have felt.

The issue of course is the wrongly accused and how it would feel to have your baby (okay adult but still your baby) or be killed when you're innocent.

The question becomes which trumps which?

Do we sacrfice some innocent people to give grieving parents peace? (just using the one example to make the point)

Or do we disregard parents' suffering to avoid killing innocent people?

And there is no correct answer. It's all completely academic, but I'm not against it, wouldn't campaign to end it, but I would advocate for firing squad which is quick and less painful than other methods. I think the injection method is cruel and therefore unconstitutional but that's my only real gripe these days.

Or tortured a young child!

The death penalty is too easy on them. Years of being isolated and even then being got at by other inmates will be much worse than a swift death.

@poopoopooinyourshoe

Firing squad?? Really?

yes unless you know of a quicker and more painless way?

@ADHDeee .. there are VP wings and by placing someone on there you immediately identify them as a child abuser .. even though there are multiple reasons why they belong in a vulnerable wing

We have a police officer and a prison officer serving on our VP wing

They are not entirely safe there as fellow inmates still have a hierarchy of hatred , as do staff , they cannot attend any other location within the jail until the whole place is frozen for them and don't forget their food is prepared , cooked and sent to that wing by prisoners ...

I ask you again: how many lethal miscarriages of justice would be acceptable to you? You keep dodging the question. My answer is simple: zero.

IDontCareMatthew
@poopoopooinyourshoe

Firing squad?? Really?

yes unless you know of a quicker and more painless way?

It's not painless. It's not quick either. Won't happen

The problem is, capital punishment makes society itself a more brutal and savage place. It brutalizes and de-humanizes us. I sympathize with your rage. I remember reaing about a guy who ran an orphanage in the 1970s and regularly raped the children, some as young as six or seven. That kind of evil is beyond words, and that piece of deserved to be executed. I'd still, reluctantly, oppose it though. However, I do think that people like him should be locked away until they die, receiving the bare minimum – simple food, one visitor a month, very basic medical care, etc. And if they decide, like Ian Brady, that they want out, they should be provided with the means to end their own life.

Quicker and more painless, not quick and painless.

I'm the quickest, most painless way. I think it's firing squad but could be wrong.

What do you think it is?

The burden of proof would have to be overwhelming to hang a man and in that case I think it highly likely he would have been on the grounds of his learning difficulties. Although I concede that I am not an expert.

Derek Bentley's learning difficulties didn't get in the way of him being hanged. And it's not even sure beyond reasonable doubt that he actually fired the shot that killed the policeman.

That argument 'may' only work if you're talking about humans. In my eyes (and I know my eyes aren't the Law but) but any one who harms let alone kills a child ceases to be human, they're demonic.

To my mind that isn't so much an argument for the death penalty as an argument for longer “life” sentences/ view about the need to revise the justice system.
I think this is needed but it isn't the central theme of this thread about state killing.