Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

And same goes for many other peoples wages whos have not risen with the cost of living i.e retail but they dont go on strike. They just move on and find a better paid job elsewhere. Sounds to me that the nhs are only botherd about the money rather than the job aspect of it so whats it matter if they work for nhs or some other buisness as long as they are receiving a real living wage. If you was to actually do a survey and ask how many retail staff actually have a profestional qualification, you will be surprised by just how many there is! Its a no brainer, work for nhs and be "over worked and under paid" as you all call it, or work for a company that offers less stress and hassle and be paid more 🤷‍♀️

@Mumofone545

And if all the staff left the nhs, who is actually going to care for people?

The role of the nurse has changed. Long gone are the days of bedside nursing where you could chat to your patients, wash them. This isnt the role of the nurse anymore. Its the tole of the nursing assistant. Nursing is a degree qualified profession where where they make clinical judgements on the path of care. They preform interventions that used to be the role of the junior doctors. Ask any nurse that qualified prior to the 2000s how different the job is now. But the pay hasnt changed for the extra responsibility, and the staffing doesnt have a legal, enforceable ratio, so that extra responsibility is whilst caring for more patients that ever, and with an aging population and advances in medicine, the needs of the patients are much much higher.

Nursing is not the job people think it is anymore. Its not how it is in tv or movies, drs are not there on wards all the time. In my dept they are routinely there for an hour a day. The nursing role is very different to what it was historically and i wish public perception changed at the same pace the job did, so people could understand why nurses are striking.

But again that is the same i other jobs, team leaders are now doing the jib of a manager taking on legal responsibilities, managers taking on the role of senior managers and so on and all more or less for the same pay. Its not just the nhs that have taken on more responsibility for very little more pay but they are not striking. Again, dont like the way things have changed then move on. If noone works for nhs, then they wil start paying more to get the docters/nurses ect back.
You want a better pay but Just explain to me where this money is going fo come from because from what im seeing is many people can barley put food on the table and need to decide wheather to have heating in the home or food in their bellies. You are going to cause a riot and then the nhs will be busy.

So much money is wasted. The NHS pays upwards of £17k per nurse it brings over from abroad. Often these nurses come thinking the pay here is great. They arrive and realise the pay in relation to the cost of living isnt great, and they quickly more move on. This money is on top of the pay. If we stopped relying on recruitment from abroad, and made nursing an attractive role again to young people the money would be there for more nurses.

The degree is intense. Students are literally free labour. When i was a student i would have to do 37.5 hours a week unpaid work on wards, and 24 hours a week as a health care paid just to get by. Along with theory blocks and only 6 weeks off from uni a year. The degree is hard and drop out rates are much much higher then other course. And alot of nurses who qualify see the reality of ward work and never go once qualified, they can make much more money and have a better work life balance do aesthetics. Pay students for the work they do, make them see early one that they are a valued member of the work force. Stop making them struggle for 3 years and become disillusioned before they have even started. Paying for the degree would ultimately save money as you would have more staff being paid NHS rates.

Stop agency staff from earning more for dojng half the job. I work in a specialised area. Agency nurses do not know the role. They come in and do half the job making my role harder as i have to pick up extra work, and they get paid double. In order to stop agency being the norm, we have to make NHS positions more attractive. They are already spending that money, its there.

Im not going to sit and argue the 17% is right, although i can see how they got to that figure. But it needs to be more attractive. If you made the starting wage rise from £27k to £30k, for a job where you are responsible for people lives lets not forget, you will attract many more younger people to the role, as the 3 is more attractive than the 2. This is an attainable goal. Its not greedy, its not asking for millions. Its asking that nurses get paid decently and staffing gets resolved.

The difference is that Tesco and Aldi staff don’t routinely have peoples’ lives in their hands do they ? As a previous poster pointed out, you were in A&E when you encountered the doctor clocking off and he knew you would get the help you need. If we expect doctors to stay extra hours routinely after working long shifts then we need to expect more mistakes being made, because that’s what happens when doctors are exhausted. Actions have consequences.

Police Scotland starting salary for a constable is 28074 and rises to 45081 if they remain a constable throughout their career.

Nurse pay is 26104 rising to 32915 if they remain a band 5 (which a lot of nurses do)

To support @Beseen22 comment, 48% of nurses remain at band 5 for their career. That means after 4 years or 40 year's experience, their pay remains the same.

Plus you don't need a degree to become a police officer. Unlike nursing.

Yes you do need a degree.

You can enter via the police degree apprenticeship or you can join police training after you have a degree.

My dc is a police officer on the degree apprenticeship. He’s getting paid a full salary while working and studying the degree.

Nursing should be the same.

Errrrrmm. Yes. You do.

Yes, but you do not need to have a degree to join. You can join then do it while you're working, while getting paid. Nurses have to get a degree first before they can get a job as a nurse and get paid.

@BadNomad

Nursing apprenticeships are an option. They get paid band 3 for all practical and theory blocks. There are much fewer places however and you usually have to be employed by the trust already, but the same route is available

That isn't the same, though, is it? It's not open to anyone qualified. They don't get paid a full salary while they train.

The police, like the armed forces, pay you properly from the start, while you do your training and qualifications. Student nurses, do full-time placements, unpaid, for 3 years.

@BadNomad

Its not unpaid for apprenticeships though less than qualified and fewer places

Im not arguing with you tho, i fully agree all students should be paid for their training. They work as hard as perm staff, their supernumerary status is not respected or adhered to, if they are going to be treated as staff, they should be paid too.

Yes, so my point is the police get paid a lot more than nurses do, from the very start. Yet that other poster is trying to make out nurses have it so much better than the police do and everyone should just go work in Tesco or something.

I'm a nurse. And basically you get one chance to have a wash in the morning that's it. If my patient says no or says after my I've finished my morning tea then generally no i won't go back in there. As long as they aren't soiled im prioritising my care based on need and having a wash is bottom. Please read: if they are soiled, or become soiled they get washed.

The biggest worry and potential for concern in the country is the explosion of degrees for every job out there. I would venture that most nurses, policemen, and many teachers do not need degrees. MIL qualified as a teacher through Homerton in Cambridge (before it was affiliated to the uni) with a teaching certificate. She didn't need a degree to teach, she needed good foundation skills, appropriate training and a love for children and learning. It didn't stop her becoming a deputy head either.

@madeyemoody I have my morning tea before I shower every day. Rather than being so prescriptive and deciding washing is a low priority (and it may well be to you but I assure you it isn't to most humans) perhaps hospitals/matrons need to ensure patients get their tea before the washing round, or you could be more flexible and let the patient finish their tea allowing them some dignity and you could wash the patient who has finished their tea.

You sound unkind and happy for souls to feel gross all day from grubbiness - smelling their own pits. It's a disgraceful attitude and I think you should be ashamed of yourself.

"If noone works for nhs, then they wil start paying more to get the docters/nurses ect back."

One minute you ask for a doctor to stay later to care for your son and the next you are telling staff to leave. I think this is the problem. We want a 5 star health service but we can't pay for it. So either people go private or have lower standards. I'm not suggesting children should not receive emergency care, just so you know.

As a healthcare support worker I wash my allocated patients daily & do their teeth but often shaving has to take place later in the day due to lack of staff & high numbers of dependent patients to help.
I'm really sorry to say that sometimes lately I have to really beg certain staff nurses I'm working with to actually help out with washes. They do the drugs then write the care plans without actually carrying out the care!!!! So aggravating.
Hopefully the clinical leader will bring it up at the ward meeting as several other support workers are struggling with lack of help.

Some of the older staff nurses are very good though.

What about patients who want to shower before their morning tea though? I'm guessing things happen in stages otherwise wouldn't the breakfast trolley lady and the healthcare staff be obstructing each other on the ward? Not sure what other hospitals are like but the last ward I was on was tiny.

This is just nitpicking. I think the government need to decide if they want the public to pay for part of their treatments or not. I'm not in favour of it being private as my tax won't go down and I will have additional costs but I think posters like you who want a hotel service should vouch for private healthcare.

Not saying patients shouldn't be washed at all, they should but if a nurse has to ask them 3 times in the day that's wasting time for other patient care.

@Rapz1212 it isn't an argument about private v public healthcare, it's one about affording patients some basic dignity and being respectful of their needs for personal care rather than accepting the race to the bottom.

Wards run on routine. So breakfast is at a certain time, wash round is at a certain time, drugs round, etc. That way no one is forgotten.