Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

Medics are not employed to provide care to 5 year olds unless parents are not there. The parents do the care.

Your mum should have been bodymapped and that's unacceptable. I'm not saying it's right but there's not enough time in the shift to complete all the care that needs to be given and it's disgusting and why I left. It's absolutely not acceptable for your mum to be left like that. The two nurses on the ward will be administering IVs , injections, suction , catheter care meds , meds rounds for complex patients take a long time. There's at least 3 meds rounds to do on day shift as well as PRN which is extra . Then you have the controlled meds checking and book to sign. Then you need to complete all the documentation which takes a long time. Handover , MDT meetings then management responsibilities like supervision, mentoring students. So you only have your 2 HCAs available to be out on the floor with 40 patients and obviously they aren't happy as they only have two hands so washing and dressing 20 people each is very difficult so they are leaving as well . The strikes aren't just about pay it's about the increasing work load less staff and more complex patients with more comorbidities.

I really hope our government does something soon the situation is just untenable.

My husband had to have emergency surgery and they didn’t even give him a drink of water afterwards…. Nurses stood around chatting…

Slightly tongue in cheek, but after many similar experiences with my elderly parents, I often felt that next of kin/carers etc. should be given special training on how to insert a canulla, give iv fluids and antibiotics etc. on the order of the doctor, and anyone can do BP/Temp/HR monitoring. ECG on the Kardia is as good a general monitor of things as anything else.

Then.... if anything flags up, off you go to the hospital, where staff only have to monitor those who are very ill.

Home hospital. You can wash them there aswell.

This is not meant to denigrate anyone, but realistically if many medics are neglecting ill patients, then DIY. Could become a thing!

@Ilikemeat2023 which surgery did he have out of interest ?

@Noonesfaultbutmine hand. They obviously couldn’t be arsed to help him

Not really sure how to take that comment. I’ve read, and to a certain extent agree, that staffing levels are a problem. I also understand that a good deal of updating of patient records is done on computers, as are learning modules. However, when I ask for someone to help mum to the loo and she’s kept waiting for 25 minutes so that she ends up wetting herself, while half a dozen nurses are sitting at desks at the nurses station I tend to ask myself what is more important ? The role of the nurse has changed over the years and is much more demanding technically, but at what cost to the patient if sitting at a computer takes precedence over providing appropriate care.

I have zero respect for nhs, all this striking for more money? Half of nhs dont earn the wage they are currently on, like mentiond, a lot is seen stood around talking for long periods. When my son was 11 month, he stopped breathing, gasping for air, (i work nights and was working at the time) dh rushed my ds to hospital ( we live liturally 2 minutes from hospital) an anbulance man saw my dh distress and panic and went over to help him, saw my ds was grasping for air and turning blue, rushed my ds into the hospital via the ambulance doors rather than a&e, a doctor was passong so ambulance man asked doctor for help and explain baby not breathing and doctor just walked straight passed and said sorry iv clocked off, ambulance man was dumb struck. How could a doctorjust walk away and leave an 11 month baby not breathing. From that day, what little respect i had for nhs was gone.
Do i think they are right to strike? No. Where do they think this extra money is actually going to come from? Our bills are already high enough!!

So you don't support the striking for the paramedic who tried to help your son?

I first I read your post and thought that's so bad but after thinking about this... If your child was in A+E then there isn't anything that doctor could have done. If they stayed longer to see every patient who came in breatheless then they would be there forever. What is the difference between your son and another patient who has just come in through the ambulance door with a heart attack? Should the doctor stay and see them too when they are getting paid £14 an hour and have stayed an extra 2 hours already. Your son needed to wait to be placed into a proper environment before being treated. Should every doctor stay at work for 100 hours til every patient in A+E is okay, which is never going to happen.

I've been in a similar situation with my dad and at the time I didn't get it but after being informed of the poor working conditions I can understand why the system is the way it is.

I am greatfull to the paramedic, but he was doing his job that he is being paid to do. End of the day, when they decide to train or apply for that job, they must have a good idea what they will be getting paid so they should decide before applying/accepting job wheather they are happy with that pay and if not, go work elsewhere. Its simple!
Take tesco and aldi for example, aldi pay better than tesco, if your not happy with what teaco pay, go work for aldi.
Your not happy with nhs pay - go work elsewhere!
I've been let down too many times via nhs to have any respect for them. Sorry

The problem with that approach is many people are choosing to work elsewhere. So the NHS is spending a fortune on agency staff because they can not recruit.
Un your scenario if Tesco could not get staff, they would increase the wages. Not keep wages lower and spend a small fortune on agency staff.

It doesn't work like that, they can't just get a job somewhere else, there have a healthcare degree and there is only the NHS that they can train in.

Also I really hope they don't just leave because they probably can for better pay in other countries and sectors. What will happen to our sick relatives then? There has already been an excess of 1500 deaths in one week in December. I don't want that to be my relative.

My dad waited too long after having a heart attack and passed away at a young age. If there were more staff he wouldn't have died. I probably see things differently to you because of this but one day it will happen to us all.

Unless people are well off enough to spend an extra £100 per person a month for healthcare, I'm very confused as to why they don't support better pay for healthcare staff. I certainly can't afford that!

If anything health care workers should want the NHS to be privatised because then they will get better pay and free healthcare insurance. So I trust them over this government.

I would not of expected the doctor to stay for the duration, he could of at least helped for the 2/3 minutes it took til another doctor came and took over.
When you go into a supermarket and you ask a member of staff for help, that member of staff may have just finished there shift or be on there break but they still help, even though it means having 5 mins less break or after a long busy very tireing shift and they just want to go home, they stil go out of there way to help the customer even though they are not being paid to do so - many retail workers do not get paid for breaks so wil be doin it in there own time.
Maybe the nhs should have a back door to exit via so when they clock off, there shift will officialy end and wont need to give 2 mins help to a non brething baby.
When i got to a&e, there was no que, it was quiet and all 3 of the reception staff was stood/sat having a chin wag while im stood there waiting to be seen to aak where my son is and after a few minutes of waiting i eventually had to say something where one of the receptionist response was to be patient and they wil get to me when they ready, it was a nurse dealing with my son who heard a comotion in the waiting area that realised that was probably the babys mother and came and took me to my son.
Im not saying a non breathing baby deserves more attention over a non breathing adult, all should be treated equally and if the doctor was to end up staying an extra 2 hours becaise they ended up treating several patients on there way out then maybe its the structure that needs changing and not the wages. Rather than overpay the nhs, give them less pay so they can then employ MORE staff and maybe have 2/3 doctors stood around the exits (something they seem to be good at -standing around) to help any patient nessassary so when the doctors clock off , they can smoothly fo home!

That's the point @Mumofone545, people are leaving in droves because of the pay and more so the conditions. A doctor has every right to leave at the end of their shift, many don't and stay on because they feel they have to, but I have a lot of respect for those with boundaries actually. Not sure if you're being obtuse but there are lots of vacancies, there are posts for HCPs but people aren't applying- a pay rise would mean people might actually want to do the job.

You want doctors to stand at the exits of A+E? ... So they can do what exactly? Watch around. If there is no A+E room with no oxygen and equipment nothing can happen. You also want them to be paid less than minimum wage to do this. I am very confused and I think your expectations are unrealistic. I think you should get private healthcare.

I can understand if your child was not in A+E but they were already there. So what you are suggesting makes no sense. You are just asking the staff there to work unpaid overtime. It's better the doctor said no because it's unrealistic for them to keep taking on extra burden to maintain services. It's not the same one minute sentence a supermarket worker would give. They would need to find a A+E room for your son, assess your son, treat them and then refer them to the ward.

If your son was with the paramedics there is no extra support that doctor could give but look at your child til a room was found for them. I'm sorry but that is the truth.

Tesco can not recruit staff and are not putting wages up more than usual and do need to go to agency for staff

They can go work elsewhere if they want better pay, they should of thought about the pay grades when they did there training. Maybe they should of not trained in the nhs sector if they are not happy with the pay!

Ok lets all pay an extra £100 to the nhs so they can av a luxury lifestyle but lets pay an extra £100 each to the police and fire brigade coz if any one deserves a substantual payrise, its them, they are the ones risking there own lifes to save ours. Most police are on approx 22k if not less and i think they deserve a lot more than nhs.

Im.not sure why the paramedic asked for help from a doctor, but he did and that was the docs responce. Nobody is askin for the nhs to be paid below minimum wage just not to be greedy with the wage. And has for askin for 2/3 docs to stand around at entrances, your the one moanin that docs are bein asked to help patients when they are going home so was just an idea to stop this. That doc did not need to treat/access/ refer to ward, just keep my child breathing while another doc got there to take over. I hope to god you dont have a baby that stops breathing coz taking him to a&e and waitin 4/5 hours to be seen, poor thing would be dead!

But where would the money come from to pay the payrise? Stop over paying agency. Many nurses ect choose to work for agency coz of better pay, and so they are the ones damaging the nhs, if no1 worked for agency, more money could be put into paying nhs staff.
We all deserve a luxury wage so we can go on nice holidays ect so lets put the prices up in the retail factor, double the prices actually, same with the food industry, and any other company out there, lets have all prices doubled so all staff can have a goid wage. Or better still, pay everyone, regardless of job sector the exact same wage, put everyone on minimum wage, problems solved. Why do you think companies have gone bust? Because they cant afford to keep paying the high rise of the wage bill. Nhs staff get paid more, nowhere to get the money from, nhs wil go under, everyone wil want to train to be in the nhs because they overpay then you wil get more staff than needed and the pay wil drop again coz the nhs can afford to be picky coz if one person walks away from that job, another wil quite happily take the place!

If you're talking about people that did their training a long time ago, the pay was ok back then, but the wages haven't risen with the cost of living.

If only it were as simple as saying 'you knew the wages when you started the job'.