Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

How times change. I only did 20 months SRN training on the late 80s but frequently was busy in the sluice room rinsing false teeth at 7am ( not my favourite thing at that time) and sorting out bedpans etc and must have done on average at least 3 showers a day with ladies when on female surgical and medical. I actually really enjoyed the caring aspect and helping people eat and talk , find vases for their flowers, deal with relatives etc a lot more than the technical stuff and writing up care plans if I'm honest. I received rave reviews from the ward sisters that patients always asked if I was on duty- and it certainly wasn't for my ability in IV changing, stitches removal etc - nursing taught me that I'm a bit ham fisted!!! I can say that I think even then in my group of 25 training it was a very mixed bag- some really caring kind students and several who were actually very matter of fact and I think were poorly suited to the job

@femfemlicious I’m going to take some duct tape on my bay if I ever go in again!

yes seen this too. back in 2012 my dad was in hospital and required adult nappies he was left for hours on end unchanged after soiling himself as his calls for assistance were going ignored and the same thing was happening to the other patients on the ward too. I actually saw my dad cry with frustration at being ignored. whenever I visited nurses were often all stood nattering at the station and never appeared to be rushed off their feet. I got particularly annoyed on one visit when I witnessed 4 nurses all put fresh sheets on one unoccupied bed all with a corner of the sheet each whilst they nattered about what they'd all watched on TV the previous evening meanwhile buzzers were going off and ignored. I was much younger at the time and wasn't as good at complaining back then I certainly would now. lazy gits they were. that experience still annoys me now and I was only a visitor, the poor patients.

I was a patient in hospital recently and the older ones were washed ..
annoyingly once at 4 am …
🤷🏽‍♂️
only Time spare I expect as super busy ward !!!!!!
it’s the healthcare assistants who do this role now ..
in the peppermint green uniforms ..
bit even they are run off their feet ..

I have recently been very well looked after during a week long stay at hospital. Everyone asking if I was sure that I didn’t need pain meds and reassuring me that if I needed anything to just press my buzzer. So tender and so genuinely caring at a time I needed them even though I could hear them talking about how they were all leaving or planning to and it was so and so’s last day etc as I was right outside the midwives station. I am also unafraid of an operation I have on Friday because of this.

What I fear is getting old. I used to work in a private care home and we had minimum safe staffing levels at maximum until they sorted agency staff. As someone who had never done it before, I was left on a floor of dementia residents after 2 nights of training actually 1.5 because they thought I was a natural. The actual trainer wasn’t allowed on site anymore due to COVID so I just tailed there senior. Once I had to do 15 min checks on 3 different residents all night on top of hourly checks for everyone, cleaning, documentation, toilet and personal care plus looking after some very mentally unwell people who couldn’t sleep etc alone. The agency staff said working there was like a break! Unless you can spend 1k a week privately, we will end up NHS care homes which according to the ladies who had been doing it for 25+ years and urged me to leave could be awful. Sometimes residents left to soil themselves because there weren’t enough of them to get the buzzers on time no matter how fast they worked.

I left after a few months and in my time I was one of 6 quitters including the lady that hired me! My partner and I were having trouble at the time and being very practical, I know all of my single-mother friends never thought their exes would not financially support their kids. I decided I simply could not raise two kids on a carer’s wage with those erratic hours. I might go back one day as I thoroughly loved the work but as for now, I can’t be convinced to take an £8k pay cut during a cost of living crisis and stress I had never known.

Their* dang it

My mum died last year after a month in hospital. Although Covid restrictions in the country had mostly been lifted, the hospital maintained a “no visitors” rule so we were not able to help mum with any of this personal care. The day she died, the whole family were allowed in, but it was too late for most of us, and more importantly for mum. A sad end for a dignified lady.

During the time we were there we didn’t see any staff members going to any of the other patients in her bay.

So what is the solution then?
We have stories here of personal care not being provided to patients which has had devastating physical and emotional impact. I believe the lived experiences written here.

We also have nurses leaving the profession in droves having experienced overwhelming workloads and distressing work experiences. The data confirms nursing retention is in crisis. I am one of these nurses that has stopped working in hospitals.

We want nurses and HCAs to do more: more personal care, spend more time with patients answer buzzers quicker. And yet the scope of the registered nurse role has expanded extensively in the last 20 years so many task now routinely completed by nurses was previously done by junior doctors . Also the documentation required on a daily basis is now astronomical.

most young people don’t want to be a nurse or a carer. Traditional women’s work like nursing is not. an attractive career choice. It’s poorly paid, low status and physical heavy work.

I do here people s say nurses should not be using there phones on shift. Nurses shouldn’t be chatting with their colleagues and nurses should work with a sense of urgency.

I agree somewhat. But I also know one of the best aspects of work is the connection with colleagues and the banter. Most professions ( not all) looking at your phone during the workday Is fine. I think working with a sense of urgency as a norm is not sustainable. I think what I’m trying to say what is normal in many other professions we expect nurses to work at a higher standard and it’s making the role less and less appealing for people to commence this job or stay in it.

I truely don’t know what the solution is.

The public want more but don't want to pay for it. What other job would people say you cant talk to colleagues occasionally? The ratios are horrendous in NHS I'm much happier in private care, more pay and less patients. I understand why people are leaving in their droves,

Kindness and compassion cost nothing.

It’s the rudeness and being treated like you are shit on the bottom of someone shoe that is the worst part.

I'm pretty sure the problem comes from the top. The senior person in the ward sets the agenda, the attitudes and what is good and what is bad and not accepted. But either there is no one seen as 'in charge' or they are scared of their staff. Get that sorted though hard when you have to have rubbish staff because no one else wants the job.

We recently found the same with my Nan. Not even any encouragement or help for her to get into a fresh change of clothes. She’s back in again and not very mobile, she has a commode but no one will help her from the bed to use it so instead they’ve given her incontinence pads and told her to just go to the toilet where she is, needless to say she called us in floods of tears. It’s a very sad state of affairs when you have to go in every day and take care of them when you would hope they would be cared for somewhat in hospital.

surely staff should be asked to keep their mobiles off in a locker? Why are nurses looking at their phones and gossiping ? This wouldn’t be allowed in most jobs, so why is it OK in a busy understaffed hospital?

Also the aging population. It used to be that wards had young people with broken legs/ awaiting operation etc but now they attend day wards and outpatients. So every patient is elderly/very elderly with comorbidities - their care takes much more time.

I think it's the luck of the draw whether you'll get a good or a bad experience really.
The worst experience I had was when my lovely late mother in law was rushed into hospital with a stroke. When I got there, she had soiled her incontinence pad badly, I could smell her before I got anywhere near her.
I asked the staff several times if they could possibly sort her out. Mum couldn't ask because she was literally comatose.
I kept getting ' in a minute ' and ' I'll get someone to sort it '
This went on for around an hour before I lost my temper. I'm not happy that I lost my temper, but the shock of seeing mum laid there like that, looking so deathly and my DH stood beside her crying was unbearable.
I've had good experiences too to be fair.
When my mum was admitted with a heart attack I can only give praise to the staff who looked after her. They were busy, but they looked after the patients wonderfully.
I'll save my anger for the government who seems determined to run the NHS into the ground.

@MonsoonMadness cos we're all air heads who do nothibg more that talking about getting our false nails done 🙄
I use mine as a calculator, to look up meds and consult the online clinical procedures guide.

I don't look at my phone much at all but I occasionally keep mine in my pocket I'm a parent with DC. I might be waiting for a telephone appointment from GP etc which I shouldn't have to take a day off A/L to do so which would impact further on patient care.

Yes the BNF app is amazing and NICE guidelines. Sometimes I don't have time to go back into the nurses office if I'm in clinic.

Kindness and compassion does cost nothing you are correct and abusive staff should be held to account and struck off . High ratios , high pressures are increasing burn out on the staff. I would much rather leave than patient care be compromised which I did. It's interesting now how the NHS pushes CPD learning about increasing resilience which means accepting the crappy conditions of poor pay , increased responsibility, patients with more comorbidities and less staff. I blame the government who seem intent on running the NHS into the ground.

It's this.
If you're rushed off your feet, but kind, people are sympathetic.
If you're as much of an utter c**t as some health "care" professionals that I've come across (and I'm not a frequent flier, it's very very rare I even attend the GP)
Then you need to buck your ideas up. I don't get away with fucking around with my phone, gossiping with my colleagues and taking the piss at work. Why should nurses?

Some wards are amazing. Others you dread your loved ones being admitted to. Why the difference? Why is it allowed to happen? If a ward has a reputation that even the public are aware of, why are they not disciplined? Put on performance management? Dealt with?
We keep hearing that it's the odd bad egg, but it's not is it? The whole establishment is rotten.

I'd like to see a similar set up to some European countries. We aren't allowed to criticise the "angels" and the NHS, but it's done. It's beyond repair and a government (any bloody government I don't care) has to have the balls to dismantle the sacred NHS.

I have thought about whether to post this over night.

What I have seen in the NHS even on here on our thread, we have seen a quiet but very obvious closing of ranks. One post mentioned that she felt the need to defend nurses - but why? No one is attacking them, we have shared our experiences. It is not attacking someone highlighting that we don't agree with a lack of basic care or outlining failures. They are the facts.

It is this 'closing of ranks' in my view, that is stopping things from getting any better, it is dangerous and a real risk to patient safety.

No one is allowed to offer their negative experience, no one in the NHS wants to hear feed back that isn't glowing and gushing - feedback seems to be seen as being overly critical, 'bashing' and of no value and immediately many of the posters on here have deflected and blamed the patient almost instantly, and instinctively.

Anywhere else in other industries we are open and have to accept brutal reviews, 360s, feedback that is not held back, because we understand this is essential to keeps us accountable, responsible and most importantly vigilant to abuse and malpractice.

What I see on here is rank and file defence of the indefensible.

Lucy Letby was able to kill babies because no one questioned her or the situation until it was too late even when there was clear evidence something was seriously amiss, and even when other nurses flagged concerns, nothing was done.

And yet we have learnt nothing from that.

You don't owe it to another nurse or HCP to cover their back if they are unprofessional, negligent or worse. You owe it to the patient to keep them safe, and that has been totally lost in the culture of the NHS.

As a result standards have spiralled, everyone's back is covered regardless of whatever shit has hit the fan and it has created this malignant culture of zero fucks given. The patients are sub human and should be 'helping themselves', they are clogging up the system. Bad practice is everyone else's fault, and it does not seem to matter how much money is poured into the NHS things only seem to get worse.

The solution is a well paid, motivated, rested work force that feels valued, and standards are high and expected, and maintained.

How we actually get there is anyone's guess.

Because it is about more than money.
We can pay more tomorrow. The ingrained now deeply rooted culture of contempt, desfensivenss, shifting blame and indifference is going to be extremely hard to shift.
You can't force people to take responsibility. In a place where whistleblowers are punished for doing the right and honourable thing, this is what we are dealing with really and it is very very ugly when you dig down. The wider public only discover this when they or a loved one have the misfortune of lying in a hospital bed, their fate and outcome in the lap of the gods.

Lucy letby hasn't been found guilty yet, to be honest if you've been following the trial you'd know that the poor standards, short staffing and what seems like a fairly toxic culture are what have allowed it to happen (if indeed it was her), not the public being afraid to say anything.

I expect those defending things work in healthcare and understand how utterly shite it is currently. There's not time to have a break or go for a wee let alone do anything above and beyond the bare minimum. When you're breaking your back and working x hours over because they don't have enough staff to relieve you it probably does get grating when people bring up stuff which really is small fry. I agree being polite and kind costs nothing, but staff are human. Not that it excuses it, but I think people do forget these are people at work, doing a job for money and not some divine calling to dedicating their lives to working as a slave to the NHS and the public (many of whom are rude and abusive).

I'm a midwife and on my last shift I was the only qualified midwife on the ward, which is not only wildly dangerous but made it impossible to give decent care. If someone complained that I was terrible because it took me a while to answer a call bell because I was supporting a bereaved family then I'd be annoyed- not because the person who pulled the bell is wrong to expect better care and to have a bell tended to, but because I physically couldn't do anymore yet its my pin and my job on the line. Its why I'm leaving and I can't wait, let it crumble. Its not patients fault but the government, but we get the blame. There are of course genuinely shite nurses and HCPs but not in the numbers some assume.

So sorry you had to go through that and I believe it. The population is getting older and sicker and the ratios are getting massive in the NHS. I go to work to care and ensure my patients get a better quality of life. I unfortunately only have two hands and the ratios are now too much. I left my NHS job and it's honestly so much better , I now actually have time to chat to my patients and conduct the proper assessments with better pay !!! There's no excuse for abusive care they should be reported and sacked. I did not go into my job to sacrifice my own physical health and wellbeing, I don't want to be seen as an angel volunteer but as a skilled professional. I've been punched , spat at , bitten , had patients wanking in front of me.

You have just highlighted the point I was making beautifully.

I was making the point that the other nurses knew something was seriously amiss with Lucy Letby's care and didn't/couldn't/wouldn't speak up. It is totally irrelevant whether Lucy is convicted, the fact remains that the nurses did not feel they could speak up. They could not even counter the possibility that one of their own might be harming patients.

Abusers rely on this culture of silence to continue harming patients. Regardless of whether anyone is charged or convicted the issue is with the culture of fear and silence. That is what needs to change in my view.

'it probably does get grating when people bring up stuff which really is small fry'

And this is another example, what is small fry to you might mean the world to a patient. Who are you to decide what is small fry and what isn't?

'I agree being polite and kind costs nothing, but staff are human' Being human for most people involved being polite, it should not be an effort to be polite to someone that is ill or injured in a hospital.

'but I think people do forget these are people at work, doing a job for money and not some divine calling'

And maybe you hit the nail on the head there. We have a system full of people that are simply there to get paid, there is no real genuine wish to care, comfort or show compassion. It is a means to an end. I would go as far as to say we should scrap degrees for nurses and other medics and simply measure their natural ability to be kind and empathetic and train them to do the rest. Surely the real test of whether you can be a successful medic and nurse is the ability to understand and respond to suffering and not the earliest point your can clock off and go for a beer.

I found your post so deeply depressing.

I dont know why it's a surprise that nurses are only there to get paid these days. People don't study at university for 3 years then commit to a job where they're going to be attacked, abused, overworked and burnt out just because they love people. There are plenty of other caring jobs that are less stressful. They're just shittly paid because the society doesn't consider care and carers as worthy of investing in.

Nursing used to be a balance. Stressful, but paid well. Now it's just stressful. You used to be able to start from the bottom and work your way up. But now, you have to get a degree first, then, for most, never progress beyond band 5, and accept not getting a pay rise because the government needs the money for something else.

There is zero incentive for people to want to enter this industry (within the NHS). And there is nothing to make nurses want to stay. Things are going to get much worse.

But, yeah, banning nurses from checking their phones and chatting to their colleagues while writing their notes, is what's going to improve patient care. 🙄