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Original poster

Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

814 replies

Shortkiwi · 14/01/2023 23:08

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

OP posts:
Brigante9 · 15/01/2023 23:42

I can’t travel currently, I have scans for a clot this week, so I couldn’t sit for long enough to get there. My sibling will be there in a week, meanwhile she has 3 family members taking turns to visit. They are very involved day to day with her.

babsanderson · 15/01/2023 23:45

Sorry to hear about your clot.
The visiting family members need to talk to her about this to resolve the issue. This type of issue is more likely to be resolved by someone she already knows and trusts.

honeyrider · 16/01/2023 00:16

TheYearOfSmallThings · 14/01/2023 23:35

It seems to be case in the UK but not in Ireland - elderly relatives there have been washed, changed and fed.

It's the case in some hospitals/wards in Ireland too. We're constantly hearing about how the hospitals are overrun with patients in with flu, covid and RSV at the moment and so many elective procedures being cancelled to cope with the shitshow that is the HSE (similar to NHS).

Some nurses are ran off their feet but there's too many nurses sat around chatting about their lives at the nurses stations. FIL had to be admitted a few times last year and was in a private room to help prevent him contracting covid while he was recovering from surgery.

His room was near the nurses station and he could hear them chatting for a couple of hours because they were not busy due to less than a handful of patients on the ward. He needed them and tried shouting out to them over the hours he was just left there but was ignored. He had advanced MND so couldn't move not even to press the bell. The care or more correctly the lack of care was disgraceful and paying over €1000 per night made no difference to the standard of care.

There's also a big problem with retention of nursing staff in the HSE and bullying is playing a big part in this and has been discussed everyday this past week on national radio so much so HSE staff have been threatened with repercussions by HSE management if they speak to the media about what's happening.

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General health
Crikeyalmighty · 16/01/2023 03:42

I did 20 months of my student nurse training in the late 80s when it was still under Project 2000. Left due to marital breakdown which made the shifts impossible with youngish children. It's interesting to know what is so different , as in all honestly I have never done a job since where I was so knackered at the end of a shift or lost so much weight. Even then there were some nurses who clearly were not people persons- but equally lots of amazing colleagues too. The thing is this happens in any office but you wouldn't know as it's not public facing in most offices-- in the NHS clinical setting you get to see the staff, warts and all. I really feel for all the good people out there doing their very best .

My own personal view is that we need to employ far more HCAs but upskill the role hugely and pay it much better, make the role similar to old school 'SEN' nursing level - actually give it kudos so it's not just seen as a 'fill in' kind of job but a career with lots of flexible options in the way that say a teaching assistant is seen as an option. Also Make sure there is a decent ward administrator 24 hours a day on duty to deal with making calls to families, updating records, dealing with admittance and release etc .

magicthree · 16/01/2023 08:54

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Iluvfriends · 16/01/2023 09:33

Absolutely not the case on my ward, care of elderly.
We still have end of bed charts too which have a bath and shower chart.

Too many patients to bath and shower everyday but we will rotate it and they will at least get a wash if not bathing or showering that day.
Teeth always get done too

It's not always black and white either.
Some patients will refuse to wash or even change clothes daily, we can't force them to do so. They then often tell family they haven't been offered.

I helped a lady shower one morning, washed and dried her hair, put on her nice clean clothes. Her daughter arrived on the ward, attitude as soon as she stepped in the door. Moaned to a nurse soon after saying her mum was stinking and said she hadn't been washed in 3 days. Excuse me but your mum was showered this morning and def does not smell. All said in front of said mum who was mortified. Sometimes we can't win.

We're not all lazy gits. I love my job and take good care of my patients. As do all staff on my ward.

Iluvfriends · 16/01/2023 09:44

Crikeyalmighty · 16/01/2023 03:42

I did 20 months of my student nurse training in the late 80s when it was still under Project 2000. Left due to marital breakdown which made the shifts impossible with youngish children. It's interesting to know what is so different , as in all honestly I have never done a job since where I was so knackered at the end of a shift or lost so much weight. Even then there were some nurses who clearly were not people persons- but equally lots of amazing colleagues too. The thing is this happens in any office but you wouldn't know as it's not public facing in most offices-- in the NHS clinical setting you get to see the staff, warts and all. I really feel for all the good people out there doing their very best .

My own personal view is that we need to employ far more HCAs but upskill the role hugely and pay it much better, make the role similar to old school 'SEN' nursing level - actually give it kudos so it's not just seen as a 'fill in' kind of job but a career with lots of flexible options in the way that say a teaching assistant is seen as an option. Also Make sure there is a decent ward administrator 24 hours a day on duty to deal with making calls to families, updating records, dealing with admittance and release etc .

HCA's are seen as a 'fill in' kind of job....seriously. A hospital couldn't operate without them, the work load is immense as it is.
HCA don't just do personal care. We help the nurses too if they need it, I can do ob's, blood monitoring, remove cannullas, remove catheters and much more.
We really don't need more work lumped on us thank you.

CalmDownBoris72 · 16/01/2023 09:51

I’m just home from a 3 night hospital stay on a bay with 5 other women (all elderly) and the nursing assistant washed them all in their beds, changed their gowns, got them sitting up every morning and then changed their sheets. That was an NHS orthopaedic trauma ward so positive experience. The nursing assistants (same as HCA with a different name I guess) were amazing and worked so hard.

Princesspollyyy · 16/01/2023 10:05

HCA / auxiliary nurse / nursing auxiliary is the same job.

Shiningstarr · 16/01/2023 10:09

Yes an HCA is definitely not a fill in job. I'm an HCA and I can do:

Patient observations (blood pressure, oxygen saturation levels, temperature, respiratory rate)

Neuro observations

ECG's

Take blood

Remove cannulas

Assist with feeding

Assist with dressings

Personal hygiene

Toileting

And many other tasks! It's not just giving someone a wash or taking them to the toilet.

greenacrylicpaint · 16/01/2023 11:11

Shiningstarr · 16/01/2023 10:09

Yes an HCA is definitely not a fill in job. I'm an HCA and I can do:

Patient observations (blood pressure, oxygen saturation levels, temperature, respiratory rate)

Neuro observations

ECG's

Take blood

Remove cannulas

Assist with feeding

Assist with dressings

Personal hygiene

Toileting

And many other tasks! It's not just giving someone a wash or taking them to the toilet.

leaves the question: what do nurses actually do?

don't get me wrong, nursesare vital for the smooth running of hospital and other health care. but it seems to be unclear to the public.

plus it allows issues to be passed from pillar to post as it's 'not my responsibility'

Princesspollyyy · 16/01/2023 11:33

@greenacrylicpaint

Registered nurses administer medication, insert and remove catheters, insert cannulas, do dressings, wound care, set up iv's and many other things

headstone · 16/01/2023 11:55

Greenacrylucpaint the ultimate care of the patient from admission to discharge is the responsibility of the registered nurse. However there is far too much work to do for one person and many tasks are delegated to other care professionals, whilst the registered nurse does tasks that require extra qualifications. It’s not just personal care needs, it’s monitoring and reacting to deterioration. Managing the patients condition, administering treatment etc. we are also expected to help with personal care and make sure it is being done properly. there is usually so much to do and most shifts are a struggle to get it all done. Sometimes you are also expected to manage the whole ward too and attend meetings.

Iluvfriends · 16/01/2023 11:57

With regards to HCA doing obs and removing cannullas and so on......if a nurse is sitting twidling their thumbs and asks for a HCA to do any of these then that would be a no....you have time do it yourself.

We are there to assist, not do the nurses job for them, eg a patient takes very unwell and the nurse can't leave their side but needs obs done on patient A and a canulla removed from patient B....we can do that.

Seagate · 16/01/2023 12:33

honeyrider · 16/01/2023 00:16

It's the case in some hospitals/wards in Ireland too. We're constantly hearing about how the hospitals are overrun with patients in with flu, covid and RSV at the moment and so many elective procedures being cancelled to cope with the shitshow that is the HSE (similar to NHS).

Some nurses are ran off their feet but there's too many nurses sat around chatting about their lives at the nurses stations. FIL had to be admitted a few times last year and was in a private room to help prevent him contracting covid while he was recovering from surgery.

His room was near the nurses station and he could hear them chatting for a couple of hours because they were not busy due to less than a handful of patients on the ward. He needed them and tried shouting out to them over the hours he was just left there but was ignored. He had advanced MND so couldn't move not even to press the bell. The care or more correctly the lack of care was disgraceful and paying over €1000 per night made no difference to the standard of care.

There's also a big problem with retention of nursing staff in the HSE and bullying is playing a big part in this and has been discussed everyday this past week on national radio so much so HSE staff have been threatened with repercussions by HSE management if they speak to the media about what's happening.

Show quote history

Why were you paying 1000 euro a night? Were you a private or public patient? A thousand a night is very steep.

BitOutOfPractice · 16/01/2023 12:38

23 years ago, I was still lying on the same blood soaked sheet / pad thing that I had given birth on 12 hours after an emergency C section. I was literally covered in all sorts as you can imagine. Nobody had come near me even to help me put on new nightie or underwear or bring me a drink (I was BF). Like many have reported here, nurses chatting at the station metres away from me for hours on end. They got short shrift when my mother arrived.

babsanderson · 16/01/2023 12:41

Everyone's sheets are now changed once a day automatically.

DemBonesDemBones · 16/01/2023 12:42

@babsanderson my Dad was discharged yesterday, admitted on Wednesday and they weren't changed in that time.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 16/01/2023 12:43

babsanderson · 16/01/2023 12:41

Everyone's sheets are now changed once a day automatically.

They should be…

Crikeyalmighty · 16/01/2023 12:46

@Iluvfriends I don't see it as a fill in kind of job at all-- !! I suspect that's the general perception though especially when people haven't done the job and are looking for careers.

Meseekslookatme · 16/01/2023 13:32

RosesAndHellebores · 15/01/2023 15:10

I am struggling to imagine how someone's feet bleed at the end of a shift unless they are wearing ill-fitting and/or unsupportive shoes to be honest.

I thought this.
I've done 14 hours straight in retail with no breaks, rushing about on my feet. They get a bit achey at most.
Blood means ill fitting shoes

babsanderson · 16/01/2023 13:35

@DemBonesDemBones Did he refuse to have his sheets changed?
Changing the sheets is part of the ward routine like drugs rounds and lunch being brought round. So if you are admitted to a proper ward it should happen automatically.

Hanschenklein · 16/01/2023 13:52

@greenacrylicpaint we do nothing. Apart from sit chatting about our nails.
l love all these self appointed experts on nursing who’ve never even been one, just happened to sit for an hour or so on a ward visiting a relative 😂

Shiningstarr · 16/01/2023 14:23

Iluvfriends · 16/01/2023 11:57

With regards to HCA doing obs and removing cannullas and so on......if a nurse is sitting twidling their thumbs and asks for a HCA to do any of these then that would be a no....you have time do it yourself.

We are there to assist, not do the nurses job for them, eg a patient takes very unwell and the nurse can't leave their side but needs obs done on patient A and a canulla removed from patient B....we can do that.

We do obs as routine as it's just something we do on our ward. We start at 7am, have handover until 7.30, then the HCAs start the obs, and the nurse starts the medication round.

When obs are finished I will start on washes. When the nurse has finished meds she will help with remaining washes.

It's very much a team effort.

Iluvfriends · 16/01/2023 14:28

Crikeyalmighty · 16/01/2023 12:46

@Iluvfriends I don't see it as a fill in kind of job at all-- !! I suspect that's the general perception though especially when people haven't done the job and are looking for careers.

Fair enough, I get your point.

Some relatives and patients alike see us as nothing more than bum wipers.
Had a patient demand i wash her as that's my job. No my job is to assist you with what you can't do for yourself.