Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

It's a shocking level of "care".

It's abusive really.

@Newyear2023 whilst I totally agree with you that's the priority and I did a couple of years nursing in the Kate 80s- isn't that what HCAs are there for or don't you have many/enough? Otherwise what actually is their job?

The crises people are writing about are spread over the last 30 years. Things are much worse now than they have been for a long time. But I also think there’s a giant divide between staff and patients. There’s something dehumanising going on, which is what is so frightening and distressing when you’re trying to fight your corner or your loved one’s corner. Of course we should all be fighting for nurses and carers to be properly paid and rewarded. Otherwise we’re all fucked. But we are also allowed to feel the pain and distress that results from the horrific yet common experiences documented here.

Op my mum was also a nurse back in the day, she said it makes her weep, the standard of care in hospitals now. Back then the wards were run firmly and efficiently, were clean, well-managed....now it's just an absolute shit show. I've been in and out various ones over the years with ill family members, and even 20 years ago it was starting to go down hill.

@Swissmountains agree but how will discussing it on MN achieve 'real change' ?
I know what will help on my ward is more appropriately trained staff to give the care that patients deserve, to allow me to reposition my patient every 2 hours, give them regular mouth and eye care, change dressings when necessary, encourage fluids, help feed them etc
Fwiw I spend probably a 1/3 of my time on a computer. Just think of that - 2 or 3 hours typing and staring at a screen. Ironically during the pandemic management allowed us to revert back to conventional paperwork aka writing which massively freed us up to care for our patients.
So at the next GE genuinely read and examine party manifestos particularly wrt NHS and social care. Ask questions, do your research and vote accordingly. Vast majority of nurses like other professions just want to do our jobs properly.

I would also say that I haven’t seen crowds of male nurses or male medics gossiping about their Saturday night on a shift - ever - it’s not misogynistic- I personally have never ever seen it. So do you want me to lie and say I have?
its an odd thing to take away from such a sad thread that the women on here wouldn’t be saying anything if they were men.

It saddens me that this has become normalised. As in well it's a hospital the nurses are responsible for loads of patients etc etc.
As if feeling ok and fed and cared for and well slept has nothing to do with physical recovery.
They should increase the number of HCAs imho

@Swissmountains there weren't enough staff to deploy in the 'nightingale hospitals'. They were a figment of the government's imagination. Very few ever accepted patients because they weren't equipped or staffed.

How on earth are we expected to staff elderly wards in conference centres when we don’t have enough staff for hospitals??

Not to mention those places are the worst suggestion for elderly patients, they don’t have bathrooms and they’re like aircraft hangars. Imagine trying to stop patients with dementia wandering about in those.

I worked in a cottage hospital as a student nurse back in the early 90s. Was fantastic, homely facilities, proper baths and hoists. Every patient was properly bathed and fed, their nursing needs cared for. We had very good staffing levels and people who had a passion for elderly care. It’s all gone now. This group of patients are now flooding acute hospitals that aren’t resourced to manage their needs. The dementia issue is also growing and not addressed. People are living too long and refusing to plan for their care needs.

When I was a hospital doctor in Tayside, (retired 6 years ago) patients were washed in the morning and “top and tailed” in the evening. Even those in ITU on ventilators had oral care administered and were bed bathed.
When I was in hospital as a patient myself with Covid, three years ago, I was bed bathed when too fatigued to be able to walk to or stand in the shower. I am horrified to read of the low staffing levels and negligent care elsewhere.

Do you seriously expect any kind of change from a switch of political parties? Because half of the things that happened to me were during a labour government!

This is far far far bigger than politics.

We need a cross party consensus to overhaul the NHS from its terminal decline and have agreed strategies for social care. Without this each party will promise the world, and change nothing.

Or switch to the Swiss or Australian model. Or at least start a discussion with the public. It’s always a grenade that no one will touch, but someone has to urgently deal with it.
I hope it’s not too late for the NHS.

I can’t see any serious leadership or big ideas from either party. Just more sticking plasters. I believe they both think this will blow over after the winter - but anyone that works or spends time in hospitals will know the winter is now never ending - every day seems to be at winter crisis level.

You should put in a complaint, OP, every time. It is the only way to change things. I’ve been in hospital a few times over the last few years and have always been helped to wash. However, I’m not elderly and able to request help. It’s a very different matter for those who can’t.

I Left nursing as I couldn’t cope with the unrelenting workload, the stress and every aspect of my life was suffering. I now have a lovely hybrid office/work job. My job now which is still in healthcare is like a vacation compared to nursing. For people who are complaining about the lack of care YOU be the change. Go to your local nursing home or hospital and volunteer assist patients whether it be assisting them if they can’t reach their jug of water or sit with a lonely. elderly patient. It’s easy to complain about the situation but why not try and make a difference and maybe get some genuine insights into what’s happening in healthcare. HCA and nurses are leaving in droves and patient care is being impacted which is heartbreaking .

The difference between now and the good ol days is the acuity of patients and it over of beds. We’ve had a population explosion. The elderly have very prolonged life expectancy. ‘Back in the day’ nurses were ‘looking after’ women for 10 days post childbirth. Imagine how low dependency and easy that work was. No wonder they had time to fold bed corners and arrange flowers.

They could be staffed by care assistants not medics with one or two doctors overseeing the operation. Cottage hospitals are no longer big enough. What are your ideas?

Are you volunteering at your local hospital?

You sound so bitter, contemptuous and the opposite of empathetic. Arranging flowers?!
God help your patients if you are like this a work.

What made you so angry and bitter?
What happened?

We cant get care assistants. Our HCA's now do what used to be the nursing role, nursing has changed drastically. But the HCAs are barely paid above minimum wage. Infact, there was a sign outside Mcdonalds recently advertising for staff paying £2 an hour more than an NHS HCA would earn. How can we entice people into caring roles, that are hard, heavy jobs, with responsibility, 12 hour shifts, for minimum wage? When they can get paid more for handing people a burger? All NHS pay scales need reviewing if we want to gain staff.

@Swissmountains what happened ? Erm take a guess...have you read any of the descriptions of working on a very busy ward ?

Volunteers do a huge amount in every aspect of our society. It’s part of human nature to help like this. But with the huge scale of the problems in care, it is fairy tale land to demand people volunteer instead of talking about the real problems. Also political change does fuck all. Labour is not the magic wand- they’ve been as useless as the tories.

Agreed - wages for all care assistants (and nurses) need to be raised so the job is at least attractive financially.
My friend left the care profession and earns more money delivering for Amazon.

@lacey79 im a hca in the community, lone working, carrying our venepuncture, simple dressings, support visits, end of life care and now with the restructure where I am we are now also plugging the gap with not enough home carers, so taking on packages that are meant to be short term but end up not being with no extra staff (getting some more now but been a year since this started). I get paid the same as a cleaner and someone who works in the kitchen, they are important jobs too but I have a lot of responsibility going to peoples homes alone. I am doing my nurse training at the minute as well

Ok @SpangledShambles who to vote for ? Carry on with the Tories ?

Yes to this. Fundamental change. But how do we do this when politicians of all parties are too cowardly and self interested to do anything about this enormous crisis?