Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

@Katypp Go an volunteer in your A&E or an acute medical ward and see for yourself the workload and staffing first hand. Until you have been there for a 12 hour shift and witnessed what the role actually entails and you are armed with the facts, you can't say its just excuses.

Your relative was safe, he was treated, he was admitted for further care/intervention. He didn't hold up a bed in A&E, he wasn't sat for hours alone waiting in the cold to be picked up when no one had arranged transport. He was kept safe and admitted. You should be more focussed on that than being tilted over a phonecall that you asked for to be made for him to be collected, that didn't end up being needed as he was admitted.

Nursing used to be a respected profession with proper training and supervision. There used to be accountability to the Ward Sister. Laziness was not tolerated.
Teaching and nursing are both miserable professions now where there is no respect, poor recruitment and awful pay and conditions. This country is a mess.

@lacey79 so processed but no care whatsoever. That's OK then.

He was cared for. He was assessed, and monitored, a decision was made he was to be admitted for further care/testing/interventions. He was the focus of the care, not the family at home. Your issue isn't with the care he received but that the family was not immediately updated on the plan. It sounds like they did what was needed for their patient. The family at home is not the patient.

MissingMoominMamma · Today 00:48
I was bed bathed after a recent op, then the following day, someone got me up and helped me wash myself in the shower.

It was a smaller hospital, but still NHS.

The op was a routine hip replacement“

That’s I retesting. My stepdad was not allowed to use the bath or shower for a several weeks after his hip replacement.

is it the nurses who should provide personal care or is it the hca?

Both. Its an HCA task, but the nurse's responsibility to ensure all patient's needs are met.

The bashing continues- short memories when we had to go in and keep going into hospitals or care homes full of Covid patients few years back. Didn’t know what we were doing or dealing with. But we still went in and got on with it all best we could. Those days seem easy now compared to wards today.
There are dreadful nurses out there, I totally acknowledge it and see it daily and the mobile phone issue irritates the hell out of me. Nurse training concentrates on essays and not enough if any on practical skills.
Unless there is a massive improvement in pay and conditions it really is going to get worse. My fear is we go down the American path, then we’ll see how much it costs to soak some teeth in steredent or give a blood transfusion and then realise what we’ve lost 😞

I think it is testimony to how the NHS treats patients that you don't seem to comprehend how officious you sound. No-one asked to be immediately updated, you are making that up. No-one asked for the family at home to be the focus of the care.
But it did impact him, because he was worried that my mum worried but hey, as long as he was processed that's fine.
And you are acting as if one phone call - ONE PHONE CALL - is the height of entitlement. If the phones were actually answered in A&E and if a sensible answer could be given (such as it will be eg 4pm at the earliest) it is entirely reasonable to ask the family to call instead. But neither of these things happened.

When ds1 was born after a difficult labour where he ended up in scbu I was shown into a shower by the midwife who pointed out the emergency cord if I came over dickie. It was surreal and looking back quite brutal and unkind. When dd was born 3.5 years later I was given a bed bath having delivered easily a baby with a 9+ apparently score. The tenderness and care of that moment has never left me. The difference was indescribable.

Nurses shop in town in their uniform, pick up kids from school in their uniform and probably cook the kids tea wearing it. I anticipate that same uniform is worn the next day. Hygiene is not a priority in the NHS . I have seen a theatre nurse turn up to work in her scrubs in a Bupa hospital.

Hell will freeze over before I allow my family to wash me. It should never be left up to family to do it. It's wrong. It is only ever acceptable if a family member has taken on that role of a caregiver to a person. I would absolutely dread the idea of a sibling visiting me in hospital and then putting me into the shower. It wouldn't be their job or responsibility. It's completely wrong to pass that onto family members.

Genuine question - what if someone doesn't have family to help. I have family but they are all scattered around abroad and the only close family is my mother and I think she is losing it.

@Katypp I really don't know what the purpose of your posts are. You seem to be suggesting that most nurses aren't busy and are just inherently lazy and uncaring.
What's your solution if that is indeed the case ?
What is weird on MN is the vitriol the the nursing profession attracts, much like teaching funnily enough. No one is condoning poor care at all but I know of no other profession whose members are lambasted as much. Comments like 'there are few decent nurses'.. really ?

@Katypp

Say they told you 4pm then there was a 10 car pile up on a motorway. All drs tied up caring for the much more time sensitive greater need patients and you were kept waiting till 11pm?

I also imagine should he have been discharged not admitted you would have received a cal to collect him

Your expectations are unrealistic and your bashing of all staff is out of order over a phonecall when your relative was safe. Not left outside awaiting collection for hours.

I agree.

If you have a relative in hospital don’t assume that any kind personal hygiene is taking place. If you can step in and check please do. As much as you can. Take lots of fresh food and things that can easily be eaten, bottles of water and juice - make sure their phone is fully charged so if they are in terrible trouble they can call someone on the outside to rescue or advocate for them.
Make sure the phone is right by their hand before you leave. I fell out of bed reaching for mine, and laid there for hours in excruciating pain until I was found eventually by the day nurse.

Take dry shampoo, water free shower gel and dehydration sachets to hydrate their parched bodies, baby wipes are good for everything - watch them actually drink the sachet and water so you know it is done.
Keep an eye on wounds yourself. Always check their temperature and dettol every inch whilst you visit. My nurse joked that we left the place much cleaner and could we stay on. It would have been more funny if I wasn’t so traumatised after my experience there.

Even if you can’t manage to shower your relative: a lovely clean face, arm pits and feet with fresh wipes and brush their hair - lip balm as it’s so dry will go a very long way to helping them feel a tiny bit human again.

Bring in a few personal items - and never ever assume it’s all being done. Make sure they are up to date with pain relief before leaving.

I would never ‘bash’ a nurse, most are doing their level best in an over loaded system, and maybe it’s easier to called patients moaners than to address the level of suffering happening on your watch, I hope we talk more about this not less, and we will achieve real change.

We can’t go on as we are. Everyone is being failed, patients, nurses and everyone in between.

@Hanschenklein i did not say there were few decent nurses.
My purpose of posting here is to highlight that the NHS is not routinely fantastic and its staff are not beyond reproach (or Angels of Earth, as one poster said on another thread last week).
There are brilliant staff and they are awful staff, as in any organisation. But we deify all staff, which is not a sensible way to behave.

Not bashing nurses just bitter from experience.

The first time I saw my dad cry like a baby in my life was when I had wash him (in a hotel that I had to get after he was released from hospital covered in his own shit and unable to climb over the side of my bath, I had to get a hotel room with a disabled shower or I don’t know what i’d have done). There’s only me and dh, no other family. Dh offered to do it, but my dad found that concept even worse. It was horrendous to see him so distressed.

He was so embarrassed, crying all the way through saying he didn’t want me to see him undressed, and that he felt ashamed. He honestly changed after that. I know that would seem ridiculous to some, but he was mortified that I saw him like that.

So undignified for an 86 year old man who had always been so proud to end up like that. He hadn’t refused to wash in the hospital, he had asked them to wash him, numerous times. They even had to admit that as part of my complaint.

@seagate i agree i would gate for family to assist me also. But unfortunately if we have 4 hcas on, 2 are doing 1-1 care for 8 patients in bays of 4. 2 are doing the obs, 2 hourly turns, pad changes, answering the buzzers, assisting with mobility needs. Assisting the nurse. Theres no hca free to spend 30-60 minutes in a shower. The nurses cant leave their 12-15 patients for that long either. Its just not possible to assist with showers. The solution here is proper staffing levels. When i was a hca on a similar ward many years ago we would have 5 or 6 on shift. I would shower 3 patients each shift and all patients would have a shower every 3rd day minimum. But thats not the case these days. We dont have the staff and the patients needs are greater than they used to be.

That’s absolutely horrendous. I am so so sorry.

Yes we have an ageing and ever growing population and more and more need.

I thought the nightingale hospital idea for older patients that don’t have clinical need, but can’t quite care for themselves/ have a care home lined up etc was a very good idea.

Eating too can be problematic.
When our grandparents were in hospital we had a rota to go in and help with making sure they ate at lunch and dinner.
Pre Covid obviously, and in Ireland.
Both were quite deaf and their sight wasn't great so food could fall off between fork / spoon and mouth or they'd miss their mouth iykwim. Also their hands were shaky.

We used to have that in community and cottage nurse led hospitals, but they have all but closed down now. Bringing them back would go some way to solving problems, but if we cant staff the wards we have now, we cant staff those either. Low staff is the root cause of most problems within the NHS.