What can we do about dangerous dogs?

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There were 10 fatal dog attacks in the UK last year. A massive number compared to previous years. And, sadly, another already this year.

I have seen 100 suggestions over the years on Mumsnet, but there are always objections to taking any form of action against the dogs.

If it is suggested that more breeds are banned, there are the people who argue that no breed is intrinsically dangerous, and that is the fault of irresponsible owners, attracted to certain breeds, that any dog attacks. But how do we stop this? Irresponsible owners are not going to attend courses on how to be a responsible dog owner.

And then people argue that other dogs can dangerous - the dangerous retriever or poodle or spaniel. But these dogs are never found on the list of dogs causing fatal attacks. They are almost always the bullies, bulldogs, mastiffs, huskies, Rottweilers and Alsatians. You have to go back to 2015 to find an incident that is not one of these dogs. Since 1981 there are four examples which are not these dogs, out of 62. Two of these four are Jack Russells, who I think only don't cause more deaths because of their size.

And I think that's the key, to an extent. A human stands a fighting chance of escaping from many vicious dogs, but they simply cannot beat any of the breeds named above.

I personally do think it's in these dogs' nature to be aggressive. I think it's in their DNA (and I know it is in some other breeds too, but they don't have the strength of those above). But I understand that some people think it's all about the owner and the training. So if we don't ban breeds, so that anyone who notices one being led around their estate can report them, what do we do?

My job involves walking around estates for many hours a week, and I often walk past these dogs, and I think that there is absolutely no way that the owner could prevent the dog attacking. They are just too strong. It is becoming really quite intimidating in ways in which I haven't noticed in previous years.

So rather than a 'should we ban these breeds?' thread I suppose I'm asking what those people who think it's down to to nurture and not nature think would work in protecting the public (and owners' families - and themselves) from dog attacks?

Sorry for my weird spaced post - looks like the android glitch is still happening!

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Fuck me, there are some great points on this thread, this isn't one of them.

No second chances.
Your dog even nips someone, it's destroyed.
Maybe that would focus owners to actually train or muzzle.

I think there are some dogs that should only be used as working dogs - Alsatians/Belgian Malinois make brilliant police dogs but in the wrong hands can be extremely dangerous.

Typically dangerous breeds banned and those still around, destroyed.

All dogs to be on lead and muzzled in public at all times.

No dogs in shops, pubs, etc.

If you need a large area to exercise your dog, ensure you have the means to do so, either by renting an appropriate space or purchasing land.

Agree with the suggestions upthread re breeding standards and paperwork.

Dog owning is a privilege, not a right. If you can't afford the above measures, that's just tough luck and you better get a goldfish!

I do think it would be more than reasonable to enforce a dog licence and make it illegal to have dogs off lead in public.

Agreed.

This is a bullie breed. It's a Bull Terrier. Never been aggressive, this one or the vast majority of the breed. Tales of it being a bull fighting bred dog are mistaken. Such is the lot for many Victorian era dogs. Bred as companions, to look fierce, gentlemen's posing dogs. Soft and daft as a brush, as a breed.

When you make such daft, I'll informed statements like 'ban all bullie breeds' you undermine the very thing you are trying to achieve. That's what threads like this end up the same way: 2 entrenched and opposing views, neither of which are sensible.

And then people like me. Yes, more control is required, for dogs and their owners. No, it isn't always a breed thing. Yes some breeds are more prone to aggression. Yes, it is always down to the owner, legally and morally.

What is required is a society that accepts being told what it should and should not do. People who will abide by the law even when it is inconvenient for them. Any law passed about licensing dogs, training dog and owner etc will only ever affect those law abiding citizens. We no longer live in a world where people accept the rule of a law, the rights of any authority figure to tell us what to do etc. That's the flip side of 'freedom' in the UK. Freedom to topple stairs, to pour piss over buildings and yourself, to take kids out of school for a cheaper holiday, etc etc etc.

Someone else's freedom will always impinge upon your own.

So no. I'll keep my dog. You can keep your distance!

This is a bullie breed. It's a Bull Terrier. Never been aggressive, this one or the vast majority of the breed.

Sure. That's exactly what the owner of the dog that attacked my 6 month old in his pram at a playground told me - that it'd never been aggressive before.

Honestly it cannot be managed. It's spiralled too far out of control. We live in an overpopulated country with far far too many dogs.

There is absolutely no chance that the government will be able to enforce anything or even have the slightest bit of interest in doing so.

So situations like this will continue to occur. Or maybe more people will start arming themselves with a knife whenever they go walking - it's a shit state of affairs, but that pretty much sums up the UK at the moment.

I think for a start, dogs should always be on leads when in a public place. I don’t really understand why that’s not possible.

I live semi-rurally, and dogs are causing huge issues to livestock here. One local farmer has had her cows chased through electric fences 3 times in the last week, all by different dogs. Some of the cows were bitten. A local sheep farmer has the same issues, and had to shoot a dog last year. He’d already lost ewes and lambs from dogs worrying.

It’s clear that people in general do not understand the responsibilities that come with owning dogs, do not understand how to train dogs, and do not understand the limits of that training. So many dogs only have “perfect recall” until they see a sheep, or indeed another dog.

Leads all the time in public places. For strong/heavy dogs, maybe muzzle them too.

If people get attacked by their own dogs in their own homes, then I guess that’s just up to them.

Oh ok! Problem solved.

What we need to do is put down any dog at the first sign of a bite.

Absolutely no excuses.

Dog owners are very good at giving excuses for their dangerous animals. “He was wound up”, “he was playing”, “he didn’t understand”, “it wasn’t his fault”.

We also need to stop sales of dangerous dogs like XL Bullies, all mastiffs and staffies etc.

I agree with the OP. A huge amount of it comes down to biology and what a dog is capable of. As the OP says virtually all the attacks come from a small group of breeds. I think the obsession with it all being the owner's fault is stopping us solve this. Obviously owners have an impact on dogs behaviour but training and treatment doesn't overide body size, strength and innate temperament. The government need to make laws and decisions based on what we know (IE statistics).

People seem focused on the destruction of dogs and forgetting about the owners. The owner of the dog, Beast, that killed that little boy got like four years or something. Bloody shocking.

You lack a basic understanding of dog behaviour.

Dogs use mouths like people use hands. Puppies play- bite for fun. Adult dogs bite for communication, out of fear, or when unwell. The vast majority of bites are communication bites. They are deliberately light enough to not break the skin.

My sympathies. As I said, vast majority, not all. And 'attacked' can be a very subjective term. Again, that's an owner issue. A badly trained dog is always going to be a problem.

This, basically.

There is absolutely no reason why dog novice Joe Bloggs who lives in the middle of a housing estate needs to own an Alsatian, Rottweiler, Doberman, powerful bull breed, a bloody Huskie etc.

You should ONLY be able to own one of these dogs if you own a couple of acres or more, that’s securely fenced so the dog doesn’t have to be out, especially off lead in public.

There’s too many numpties nowadays that own dogs that won’t train them unless it’s using ‘100% positive methods’ you see it on here all the time, someone raises their voice to their dog and it’s ‘call the rspca, you don’t deserve to own a dog’ too many people treat them like children. You can reason with a child, you can’t reason with dog. They need firm, black and white boundaries, a dog with firm boundaries is a happier and safer dog all round.

Too many people own dogs nowadays, like someone else said, it’s seen as a god given right for everyone now, not a privilege.

Please only get a dog if you are prepared to train it to a decent level and to get firm if you need to.

This my thought. Would additional regulation based on weight and size work - with a licence similar to an exotic animal licence required for dogs over a specified weight? This would need the police to enforce as you can’t expect a dog warden to ask the neighbourhood drug dealer or gang member to show their paperwork. My dog weighs 7kgs - I accept that he, along with any other dog, has the capacity to bite but he is small enough to control and is unlikely to cause a major injury. With limited manpower to enforce, I think licensing should be targeted at dogs who present a significant danger. The cost of a license would need to be sufficiently expensive to cover the costs involved in administrating and enforcing, with large fines for infringement and seizure of the dog.

Regulating dog breeding and the sale of dogs is overdue and something needs to be put in place as soon as possible, not least because of dog welfare. However, it would be a shame if the consequence was that dogs became so expensive that only very wealthy people could afford them (almost the case now). Dogs are many people’s companion and have an important role in alleviating loneliness and keeping people active.

I would also regulate dog walkers. Locally, numerous dog walkers advertise but only one or two have any relevant training or insurance. Mine is fully insured and an ex-vet nurse - she will only walk 1 or 2 dogs from the same household at a time: however, others walk several dogs who are not known to each other and who the dog walker cannot hope to control. It is easy money at £12 an hr per dog but has the potential for disaster as the Caterham case shows.

I think there is a case for dogs on leads on streets and in some parks. I put my dog on a lead in our local play park because there are often children there, but mostly I walk my dog over open farmland and rarely see anyone - I would be sad if I was prevented from walking him off lead in these situations.

I have 3 dogs, and even I, as a dog owner think XL bully's should be banned. Yes it's the owner but this is a breed bred by back yard gangs to be bigger and more powerful than the last. It's not the dogs fault but ultimately genetics play a part along with bad ownership.

Bad one breed, another will become popular with the twats who want a dog to look hard and do the I'm a Alpha Male strut around their estate.

Here we go. Just more excuses.

Yep it always comes down to this people blaming the owners.

We know the owners are to blame but that doesn't really help.

The comparison to skiing is ridiculous. You choose to go skiing you don't choose to get mauled to death by some chav's XL bully.

Maybe some sort of license to own certain breeds. There needs to be more thorough breeding regulations too. Breeders are crossing dogs to get desirable markings/colourings and selling for ££££

a lot of these bull breeds are status symbol dogs. My neighbour has one that sleeps in an understairs cupboard and she says is ‘locked away’ when her children are up and about. I’ve seen the dog walked twice and only around the block. I’m scared one day it will flip. It is not exercised nearly enough for its size. Nor is it insured but that’s another story.

You should have a license to keep a dog. People should have an intelligence test and pass an exam showing that they understand the animal and how to care for it.

In fact, I think that this should be the case for any pet. There is too much animal suffering thanks to thick, ignorant owners. Particularly those who buy rabbits and Guinea Pigs and keep them in a hutch, or go owners who never take their dog for a walk.

This would get my vote