What can we do about dangerous dogs?

[Create10]

There were 10 fatal dog attacks in the UK last year. A massive number compared to previous years. And, sadly, another already this year.

I have seen 100 suggestions over the years on Mumsnet, but there are always objections to taking any form of action against the dogs.

If it is suggested that more breeds are banned, there are the people who argue that no breed is intrinsically dangerous, and that is the fault of irresponsible owners, attracted to certain breeds, that any dog attacks. But how do we stop this? Irresponsible owners are not going to attend courses on how to be a responsible dog owner.

And then people argue that other dogs can dangerous - the dangerous retriever or poodle or spaniel. But these dogs are never found on the list of dogs causing fatal attacks. They are almost always the bullies, bulldogs, mastiffs, huskies, Rottweilers and Alsatians. You have to go back to 2015 to find an incident that is not one of these dogs. Since 1981 there are four examples which are not these dogs, out of 62. Two of these four are Jack Russells, who I think only don't cause more deaths because of their size.

And I think that's the key, to an extent. A human stands a fighting chance of escaping from many vicious dogs, but they simply cannot beat any of the breeds named above.

I personally do think it's in these dogs' nature to be aggressive. I think it's in their DNA (and I know it is in some other breeds too, but they don't have the strength of those above). But I understand that some people think it's all about the owner and the training. So if we don't ban breeds, so that anyone who notices one being led around their estate can report them, what do we do?

My job involves walking around estates for many hours a week, and I often walk past these dogs, and I think that there is absolutely no way that the owner could prevent the dog attacking. They are just too strong. It is becoming really quite intimidating in ways in which I haven't noticed in previous years.

So rather than a 'should we ban these breeds?' thread I suppose I'm asking what those people who think it's down to to nurture and not nature think would work in protecting the public (and owners' families - and themselves) from dog attacks?

Yes. All of them. Akitas, huskies, alsatians, dobermans. All of that lot.

A blanket ban on dogs of lead in public is overkill and would disproportionately harm dogs who need high energy exercise - like hounds, gun dogs and so on. There are already strict controls about where dogs can be off lead so those humans too frail to share their space with any dog at all can stick to them. I appreciate how frightening being chased by a dog must be, but there are plenty of ways for adults to deal with that trauma and get over their fear. If they don’t want to, then they should avoid dogs - it’s not for all of us to avoid them.

Mandatory leads is also not an appropriate measure given that the vast majority of dog deaths happen on private land and are usually against people known to the owners, or the owners themselves.

On a separate note, dogs like Boston terriers, Frenchies and even beautiful boxers should be strictly regulated for their own good - too many breeders creating chronically ill animals who can’t breathe properly.

It’s people like this who are the problem. They excuse the breed, the right of a person in the Uk to own a dog that can kill, which are so strong that the person being attacked has no chance. We don’t NEED any of these dogs. The nastiest dog we need is a working farm collie. Get rid of all of the nasty breeds.

Could your local drug dealer train a cockerpoo to kill? It would be a heck of a lot harder.

And people killed in homes? I don’t care. It’s the fault of the owner. They should be imprisoned for murder. Literally the Darwin principle in action.

Where are there spaces where dogs are banned???? Where??? There is a stretch of 3 miles of beach 50 miles from me which is a nature reserve where dogs are supposed to be banned (but people ignore this). No where else within 100 miles.

And I’m not sure what the point of a licence would be. A dog let off the lead in the park with a licence is just the same as a dog let off the lead without one.

Without knowing where you live, I couldn’t say. But where I live, dogs cannot be off lead on any street (pretty sure this is the case all over the UK), are banned from most shops, all fenced children’s play areas and 2 of the 3 large parks are on-lead only. Occasionally you’ll see people flouting the rules but as a dog owner who sticks to them, I have no issue with asking them to leave the playground or pick up the poo.

Local dog owners banding together have also saved (for now) 2 large areas of commons land that were at risk of developers because they know how valuable these green spaces are for the entire community, even though they aren’t used as frequently by the general public.

If people are ignoring the dog ban on your local beach, you need to push for better enforcement. But surely the lack of anything being done shows how unlikely it is that stricter measures will be enforced. Where’s the money / appetite for it?

Dogs get people out and walking more, helping to keep us fit, and stroking pets / the companionship they provide has been shown scientifically to reduce certain conditions (heart, for one). They bring a lot of benefits, as well as some limited social harms.

Its not just about deaths. There are an an average of 200,000 dog bites every year. I believe that approximately 70% of recorded dog bites with NHS involvement are of children. This is a much bigger issue than just a few dangerous large breeds.

I personally believe that all dogs should be kept on leads in public places. We also need to raise awareness of the fact that dogs are extrememly detrimental to the environment. Not just dog mess which is very damaging to wildlife, but also the fact that in areas frequented by dogs, the number of birds nesting has reduced dramatically over the last decade.

If anyone wants more technical souces, I can provide them - I have a doctorate in the subject - but to reference it would be outing!

We have fenced playparks that are dog free, and shopping centres, but I can hardly go for a run in either of these places. There is no where else.

This attitude of 'It's the owner not the dog' does annoy me - there are numerous recent examples of dogs in loving households, well-looked after, who have just turned on their families. Similarly, you never hear of a cockapoo who hasn't had enough exercise killing its owner. Ban the breeds.

I'd ban the breeds that regularly kill in dog attacks.

I own a labrador.
If he was to turn he would be capable of killing a person, no question. He is a large, long leg, fit and active working breed. So as an owner it is MY responsibility to make sure that he is under control.
No longer live in the UK but where we are there are dog parks and designated off lead areas. If your caught with a dog off lead anywhere else it's a massive fine. If your dog attacks another dog here it is a police matter and action is always taken.
Banning breeds doesnt o have worked in the UK, so maybe the answer is to prosecute owners of out of control dogs ?

Theses threads always end up the same with people saying that responsible owners don't have problems with these killer breeds.

The problem is most of the killer breeds aren't owned by responsible owners. No amount of licensing education and training is going to make a scum bag a responsible owner.

So the only other option is to ban the dogs. Sad for the v v v small number of responsible owners that choose to have a killer breed but probably for the greater good.

Full disclosure I have a cavapoo who weighs about 5kg. If she 'attacked' someone I could stop/manhandle her , her mouth is tiny. She couldn't physically maul someone to death

I also agree with the PP that suggested much stricter regulation of breeding. I think we also need to ban the advertising of dogs - if someone wants a dog of a particular breed they can put their name down with a registered breeder through the KC and wait for one to become available.

I also strongly believe that most dogs in rescues should be put down. I have been very involved with one local rescue and am aware that many of the dogs will never be rehomed as they are unsuitable. These dogs are facing a lifetime in captivity due to their early mistreatement or neglect. This needs to stop for the sake of the dogs as well as the general public.

10 a year is 10 too many - im not disputing that.

However there have been more than 10 rapes by men. Do we muzzle their dicks?

More than 10 murders by males. Do we eradicate them from public and keep them in our houses?

One question - if dogs are not bred for pets who will breed the dogs for guide dogs or assistance dogs?

My next door neighbour breeds guide dogs for the RNIB. They don’t actually own a dog themselves.

Only 10 people is amazing, given the number of people and dogs in the UK. Compare it to the number of people killed by cars or swimming pools. I would say that it is evidence that dogs are really, really safe.

No longer live in the UK but where we are there are dog parks and designated off lead areas. If your caught with a dog off lead anywhere else it's a massive fine. If your dog attacks another dog here it is a police matter and action is always taken.

This is the type of thing needed in the UK, but we are told it won't happen because the police etc are too busy and it is impossible to enforce dogs on leads etc. We have such low expectations of our government and public services now.

From a statistical perspective, 10 out of the UK population is practically nothing. More people die from skiing each year than dog attacks.

To compare, over 70,000 tapes are reported to police in the UK each year. That's only the ones that get reported.

Jack Russell have killed babies in cots.

So I think if you want to go down the path of any killer dog adult or child. Then it needs to be a blanket ban on all breeds sadly.

So private ownership of dogs should be outlawed with that train of thought because all dogs can kill something. Including wildlife be it a hedgehog or a sheep.

The majority of the breeds under 25kg in their breed standards are actually not great with the children in the breed standard. My son was bitten and scarred by a chihuahua! He's now scared of the breed, but lives with a giant breed 🤷🏻‍♀️

But I would say the above is honestly ridiculous 🤣

Regulation and private breeding from KC registered breeding is a far better way to deal with it. Ban private selling of all dogs . Any large to giant breed dog could kill and adult, even a Labrador to be honest or a collie dog. Pinned down by one of those dogs ripping at your neck could end in tragedy. And your giant breeds include things like a St Bernard, Great Dane, giant schnauzer which people seem to forget could easily overpower an adult.

But regulated breeding by responsible breeders who will refuse sale to anyone they deem not responsible/capable is the way forward. This would mean those large, XL large and Giant breeds are owned by responsible and loving people.

I also agree with the PP's who say dogs in rescue should be put to sleep sadly. These dogs end up living in captivity for their life the majority of the time, and many have a underlying temperament issue of nervousness or reactive.

To compare, there are about 600 homicides in the UK per year. You are 60 times more likely to be killed by a human than a dog.

This is the type of thing needed in the UK, but we are told it won't happen because the police etc are too busy and it is impossible to enforce dogs on leads etc.

I don't think it's about enforcement as much as legislation. Dogs have been walked off leash on public footpaths for decades, to turn around and ban that is a huge change and many people will have chosen dogs with the expectation they can meet a dogs needs with responsible off leash time.

And anyone who thinks dog parks lead to happy, socilaised dogs needs to do some research!

This. Make the annual fee substantial, use the money to expand the numbers and remit of dog wardens to enforce existing dog law. It’s already an offence to have your dog out of control in public in a manner that causes alarm (before any actual injury occurs) but it’s not enforced. It’s an offence not your have your dog microchipped, but it’s not enforced. A lot of the current trend for XL bullies is mixed up with the criminal fraternity who obviously would not comply but if there was a more robust response it would reduce the problem. We have one dog warden, office hours, for my whole county.

A massive public information campaign about dog ownership would be a start - there are a lot of owners who are just clueless and get in over their heads. You can educate the incompetent about how to choose the right dog and how to look after it properly.

Social media sites would have to be persuaded or compelled to remove dog sales (any animal sales!) - we have to reduce the imcentive for people who currently can make a heap of money through dangerous and irresponsible backyard breeding.

Tight regulation of private breeding. Massive fines for owners and breeders of dogs that are out of control in public spaces or bite.

Automatic euthanisia for dogs that bite and put people in hospital.

I'm horrified by certain breeds and wish XL bullies and the like coulr be eradicated but breed bans don't really work. I'd like to see a way that they could - no one should have something like that as a pet.