Yet another person killed from a dog attack.. what is going on

[icelolly12]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64254413

Something needs to be done...reports of dog neglect taken more seriously, harsher prison sentences... any other ideas?

Awful, awful way to die, and makes me think twice about passing dogs off lead on walks.

"Tell me - if there was (say) an apparent fire in an enclosed space, and people rushed in a panic to the exit, and someone fell and was crushed underfoot and died, would you expect all of the people who pushed past them, or ran over them, to be charged with manslaughter?"

Taking this analogy - if there were no fire exits, no fire detection or prevention equipment, no smoke alarms, little safety legislation requiring any of those and no enforcement - would you think that was acceptable?

That's the situation we're in with dog ownership - little legislation, no enforcement and 8000 people a year hospitalised.

Just weighing in about Leonbergers too. There are 2 in my village each owned by elderly ladies- just the most gentle giants and was amazed that this breed was involved. As a dog owner I would be very happy to have a license for my dog. I don’t agree with the blanket rules that all dogs should be kept on leads/muzzled etc etc. Around here there are so many dogs and we know them all. The vast majority behave really well and it’s just common sense that you ask if it’s ok for dogs to meet or put yours on a lead/ keep it away from any anxious looking ones. My children also know all the dog breeds and can read a dogs behaviour a mile off.

Saying that there are a couple of dogs I get nervous around and these are American XL bullys, mastiffs and a very anxious ex bait dog etc. I don’t understand why you’d walk dogs like these in areas with small children around as they obviously make people nervous.

There are always going to be idiots, and those who ignore the law. But if the laws were changed, then most would obey. Dog licenses, can fund dog wardens. Limit the number of dogs allowed to walk together to 3 - which is still difficult to control IMO.

Oh but they are fur babies. People in the UK are just stupid about dogs. We'll never see any meaningful change.

It is, but with mobile phones, people would be able to take photos and report dog walkers to the council (if they reinstate their dog wardens). They lose their licence to walk dogs and that is publicised. A lot of people would stop using them if they were not regulated. Not everyone, but it would help.

It will never happen because most of the MPs probably have "fur babies" themselves and it's their "right" to run off-lead.

Controversial I know, but if you cannot walk your own dog and have to pay some one else to do it, having a dog is probably not the most responsible decision you've ever made. Similarly, if you cannot afford pet insurance, you cannot afford a dog.

I agree.
While sometimes circumstances change if a large part of your plan for dog ownership involves paying someone else to walk them most days then you aren’t really in a position to get one.

Yes, different for people who find themselves experiencing mobility issues of course but most people I know who have a dog do not walk them themselves every day, due to work commitments.

We live on a private estate and there is an elderly resident who walks a huge, strong white dog (on a leash) who barks at everything. The dog doesn't seem to be properly under control and pulls the man about, sometimes pulling the lead from his hand. Personally I'm worried about this dog, though he tends to be out early or late and I don't see him much.

Yes, many people here have dogs off-lead although it is a rule of the estate that this shouldn't happen. Even a small dog can cause problems, getting under your feet on steps or nipping at you. Also, although most people clean up after their dogs, some look round to see if anyone is around before they bother to do it.
I'm not a dog owner (though not a dog-hater!) and find some owners very "entitled" in these respects.

Socialization means taking your dog out into the world each day, and exposing them to a variety of different situations that they may find scary at first. This involves walking where people and children happen to be. I would stay away from crowded beaches and children's play areas. I don't trust any one to walk our dogs except us.

My dogs love a run along a quiet beach out of season, so you can bugger off with your pearl clutching petition thanks.

@Greatly totally agree. Nothing makes me happier than seeing my girls having the time of their lives at the beach or in the woods or over the fields. Not doing anyone any harm. Then seeing them all sleeping happy and content. Dog haters are missing out 😄.

That petition doesn't appear to be getting much support anyway. Thankfully most people are sensible and realise it's not the answer.

I'm not surprised it isn't getting much support.
The petition is about dog fights and how they're supposedly increasing. It's not about dogs attacking people.
How on earth does anyone know how many dog fights there are now compared to the past.

Training classes are next to useless as a control measure. Training a dog is a commitment for its entire life not just in the early years

Totally agree @Survey99 . EVERY day is a training day. You teach your dog how to behave, and you make sure that the standards don't slip -eg practise recall on every off lead walk by calling the dog back to you and giving it praise then letting it play again.

NEVER let the dog get away with disobeying an instruction. If you tell him to "sit" before putting down his dinner, and he lifts his bum off the floor before you release him, lift the bowl and put him into the sit again.

It isn't cruelty - it's discipline.

Dogs respond to clarity, consistency and kindness. Make sure the dog knows what is expected go him; ALWAYS use the same command for the same action eg don't sometimes say "wait" at a kerb, and other times say "stay" - pick a command and stick with it; and give occasional treats and LOADS of praise when your dog gets it right.

It really isn't difficult - you just have to be prepared to put the time in. Some breeds/ individual dogs are more biddable than others, but all will respond to good training methods.

Also - short, frequent sessions are more effective than occasional long ones. You are better with half a dozen 5 minute exercise a day than an hour once a week.

The problem with training classes is that they are context dependent - the dog learns to obey in the class, but if the owner doesn't carry those lessons into "real life" then the dog thinks they apply only to the training situation.
Dogs are like children - they want to learn, and they want to please the people they love, but far too many of them are sadly let down by the very people who should be building up their confidence and teaching them the right way to behave.

But there are "fire exits", there is "detection and prevention equipment", there are "smoke alarms and legislation".

People are choosing not to use it. They ignore legislation, they don't train their dogs, and they behave in an inappropriate manner.

None of this is the dogs' fault. Obviously if a dog is dangerously aggressive (and some are) they must be euthanised - but these particular dogs appear to have been responding to a situation which the walker placed them in, where they were terrified and panicking.

It was a terrible misjudgement on her part, poor girl, but to automatically destroy those dogs would be wrong.

What about people who have dogs but become unable, through illness or accident, to walk them?

(I do agree though, that if you are going to be out of the house for a very large part of the day, and can't be bothered to walk a dog when you come in from work, knackered, then you should not get a dog).

When I said sometimes circumstances change that’s the kind of thing I meant

I meant a training class that teaches PEOPLE mostly what they should be training a dog depending on what age and training it has had. I never mentioned the age of the dog. I got my first dog at age 7, and went to dog training classes.

I think if people are too busy in their day to take some time to understand and train for 10 minutes a day. Maybe they should not have a dog.

Two more XL bully stories in two days. One where a lady was mauled outside a tesco, another lady who was killed in her own home.

Those dogs are fucking dangerous. I don’t care how “soppy” some people say there’s are. They are too strong.

*theirs

I am a self employed dog walker and I have been gobsmacked by what this incident shows about what people think about dog walkers.

This tragic incident is so sad and my heart goes out to the poor lady who died, her family and friends and the owners of the dogs which have been detained who must be extremely worried and desperate for answers.

I think it is important to remember that as yet no details have been confirmed and it is not at all clear what happened.

I have been shocked at the vitriol towards dog walkers on social media TBH, and the amount of blame levelled at the woman who died especially given that we do not know what happened. I feel judged and defensive and daren't comment on social media for fear of being turned upon and getting negative reviews on my business account.

I accept that there are some irresponsible and unprofessional dog walkers and I would dearly love to see the industry regulated. However, it feels like there is an assumption that we are all irresponsible, money grabbing, inexperienced people and that really is not the case.

I take my job extremely seriously. I have taken numerous courses, and 2 years ago qualified as an accredited IMDT dog trainer, I read books, and have a formal mentorship set up with a local behaviouralist. Before I started I shadowed a local walker for 6 weeks and spent two days in Essex with a very experienced walker on a training course. I take a first aid course annually and am insured.

I know my limits and work within them. I walk dogs both solo and in small groups of up to 4 dogs.

I walk dogs off lead as and when I have confidence in our bond and their recall. Some dogs are not suitable candidates for off lead walks and that is absolutely fine.

I match my group walked dogs very carefully although every group walked dog is happy in company so it is a case of matching energy levels, size and temperament.

I never walk more than one young dog in a group- the specific age varies as different breeds grow up at different rates. I only walk dogs in a group which genuinely thrive in company and which enjoy the dynamics of a group.

I only introduce one new dog to a group at a time. Some dogs don't like to walk in a group, just like people they have varied personalities. It is important that dogs are not asked to walk in company if it makes them unhappy.

I have a strict induction process which includes taking a detailed history from the owner, walking the dog with the owner at least once, then walking the dog myself alone from the dog's home, then taking the dog out in my van alone, then taking the dog out with my own dog, followed by being in a group of 3 before finally being walked in a full group.

This is done steadily and we don't move from one stage to the next until or unless I am happy that things are going well. I don't take any risks at all- if I see anything that worries me about a particular dog then that dog would only ever be walked solo / on lead / not at all- or whatever is applicable.

We walk in out of the way areas where we don't see many other people. I always put every dog on lead if I see another person or dog. I choose walks which allow me to see clearly what is ahead so that we don't get surprised by bumping into anyone unexpectedly.

Sometimes we meet people who ask if their dog can play with mine. The answer is always a polite 'no' - these are not my own dogs and I am not happy for them to interact with any other dogs whilst in my care. Of course, not everyone respects that and I do have moments where people allow their off-lead or even on-lead dogs to get very close to mine. This is always awkward but I keep my dogs on lead, and have various tactics to get the unwelcome dog away asap.

I absolutely adore the dogs that I walk. I love them as my own. I know their likes and dislikes, the sound of their footsteps, their breath and their individual collar jangle, their favourite treats, whether they enjoy a cuddle, what motivates them, what worries them, how they feel about mud, water, squirrels, noise- I know them inside out and back to front.

I work within my limits. Some potential customers need a trainer or behaviourist rather than a dog walker and I am clear that isn't what I offer.

I have unfortunately encountered owners who aren't absolutely honest about their dog, it's personality and it's behaviour. This is a recipe for disaster which I mitigate by having a detailed assessment, observing the dog with the owner and taking time to carefully get to know each dog from the outset.

I do understand why people aren't always honest with me- but it is always a worry and over the years I have been glad that I have a rigorous process as it has most definitely avoided things going wrong.

As the law stands I am responsible for the behaviour of any dog in my charge. I think that is how it should be, but I would like the law to also look to the owner of any dog which causes an issue whilst being walked by a dog walker or by someone else. There should be provision to prosecute dog owners who have deliberately mislead other people by not disclosing the truth about their dog.

I am part of a local dog walking community and we do find that some of the dishonest owners flit from one dog walker to another desperately trying to find someone to take on their dog without being honest about its challenges or history. Some people seem to want us to exercise or even rehabilitate their difficult dog without any regard for how dangerous, or complex that is. These people need a behaviouralist and specialist help.

As a community we also know of numerous local dogs who are a real worry because they are very reactive and their owners act in an irresponsible way. We tend to walk in out of the way places which of course are the same places which irresponsible people exercise their reactive dogs hoping not to bump into anyone.

There are 4 dogs which I am extremely wary of and if I see their owners vehicle or the owner I will change my plans or end my walk to avoid them. All of these dogs have attacked other dogs without provocation. We have reported these people to our local Dog warden but for whatever reason they haven't taken any action.

I'm not sure why I'm posting this and I am worried about the reaction that I will get but I guess I wanted to speak out and try to explain that jumping to conclusions about what happened and dog walkers in general isn't fair.

@freckles20 the negative comments are obviously targetted at irresponsible owners and irresponsible dog walkers and the lack of regulation around both.

Unfortunately irresponsible dog walkers are too common place and I think most of us have felt extremely uneasy when we have been surrounded by 6, or more, unknown dogs a walker has out.

Surely you would also judge a dog walker who walked the breed mix and number of dogs being reported?