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Yet another person killed from a dog attack.. what is going on

877 replies

icelolly12 · 13/01/2023 08:32

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64254413

Something needs to be done...reports of dog neglect taken more seriously, harsher prison sentences... any other ideas?

Awful, awful way to die, and makes me think twice about passing dogs off lead on walks.

OP posts:
Notformethankyoukindly · 16/01/2023 18:37

Well said, @freckles20. You sound like a great dog walker, and person.

this has been a very reactive, shoot from the hip thread. In the end a woman has died horribly, and that is the only thing that matters. Everything else is speculation. MN should have some respect.

Emotionalsupportviper · 16/01/2023 18:52

freckles20 · 16/01/2023 17:53

I am a self employed dog walker and I have been gobsmacked by what this incident shows about what people think about dog walkers.

This tragic incident is so sad and my heart goes out to the poor lady who died, her family and friends and the owners of the dogs which have been detained who must be extremely worried and desperate for answers.

I think it is important to remember that as yet no details have been confirmed and it is not at all clear what happened.

I have been shocked at the vitriol towards dog walkers on social media TBH, and the amount of blame levelled at the woman who died especially given that we do not know what happened. I feel judged and defensive and daren't comment on social media for fear of being turned upon and getting negative reviews on my business account.

I accept that there are some irresponsible and unprofessional dog walkers and I would dearly love to see the industry regulated. However, it feels like there is an assumption that we are all irresponsible, money grabbing, inexperienced people and that really is not the case.

I take my job extremely seriously. I have taken numerous courses, and 2 years ago qualified as an accredited IMDT dog trainer, I read books, and have a formal mentorship set up with a local behaviouralist. Before I started I shadowed a local walker for 6 weeks and spent two days in Essex with a very experienced walker on a training course. I take a first aid course annually and am insured.

I know my limits and work within them. I walk dogs both solo and in small groups of up to 4 dogs.

I walk dogs off lead as and when I have confidence in our bond and their recall. Some dogs are not suitable candidates for off lead walks and that is absolutely fine.

I match my group walked dogs very carefully although every group walked dog is happy in company so it is a case of matching energy levels, size and temperament.

I never walk more than one young dog in a group- the specific age varies as different breeds grow up at different rates. I only walk dogs in a group which genuinely thrive in company and which enjoy the dynamics of a group.

I only introduce one new dog to a group at a time. Some dogs don't like to walk in a group, just like people they have varied personalities. It is important that dogs are not asked to walk in company if it makes them unhappy.

I have a strict induction process which includes taking a detailed history from the owner, walking the dog with the owner at least once, then walking the dog myself alone from the dog's home, then taking the dog out in my van alone, then taking the dog out with my own dog, followed by being in a group of 3 before finally being walked in a full group.

This is done steadily and we don't move from one stage to the next until or unless I am happy that things are going well. I don't take any risks at all- if I see anything that worries me about a particular dog then that dog would only ever be walked solo / on lead / not at all- or whatever is applicable.

We walk in out of the way areas where we don't see many other people. I always put every dog on lead if I see another person or dog. I choose walks which allow me to see clearly what is ahead so that we don't get surprised by bumping into anyone unexpectedly.

Sometimes we meet people who ask if their dog can play with mine. The answer is always a polite 'no' - these are not my own dogs and I am not happy for them to interact with any other dogs whilst in my care. Of course, not everyone respects that and I do have moments where people allow their off-lead or even on-lead dogs to get very close to mine. This is always awkward but I keep my dogs on lead, and have various tactics to get the unwelcome dog away asap.

I absolutely adore the dogs that I walk. I love them as my own. I know their likes and dislikes, the sound of their footsteps, their breath and their individual collar jangle, their favourite treats, whether they enjoy a cuddle, what motivates them, what worries them, how they feel about mud, water, squirrels, noise- I know them inside out and back to front.

I work within my limits. Some potential customers need a trainer or behaviourist rather than a dog walker and I am clear that isn't what I offer.

I have unfortunately encountered owners who aren't absolutely honest about their dog, it's personality and it's behaviour. This is a recipe for disaster which I mitigate by having a detailed assessment, observing the dog with the owner and taking time to carefully get to know each dog from the outset.

I do understand why people aren't always honest with me- but it is always a worry and over the years I have been glad that I have a rigorous process as it has most definitely avoided things going wrong.

As the law stands I am responsible for the behaviour of any dog in my charge. I think that is how it should be, but I would like the law to also look to the owner of any dog which causes an issue whilst being walked by a dog walker or by someone else. There should be provision to prosecute dog owners who have deliberately mislead other people by not disclosing the truth about their dog.

I am part of a local dog walking community and we do find that some of the dishonest owners flit from one dog walker to another desperately trying to find someone to take on their dog without being honest about its challenges or history. Some people seem to want us to exercise or even rehabilitate their difficult dog without any regard for how dangerous, or complex that is. These people need a behaviouralist and specialist help.

As a community we also know of numerous local dogs who are a real worry because they are very reactive and their owners act in an irresponsible way. We tend to walk in out of the way places which of course are the same places which irresponsible people exercise their reactive dogs hoping not to bump into anyone.

There are 4 dogs which I am extremely wary of and if I see their owners vehicle or the owner I will change my plans or end my walk to avoid them. All of these dogs have attacked other dogs without provocation. We have reported these people to our local Dog warden but for whatever reason they haven't taken any action.

I'm not sure why I'm posting this and I am worried about the reaction that I will get but I guess I wanted to speak out and try to explain that jumping to conclusions about what happened and dog walkers in general isn't fair.

I only wish more professional dog walkers were like you - unfortunately too many people see it as an "easy" way to make a quick buck.

It's actually just a recipe for disaster if it isn't approached professionally and sensibly.

LordSugarTits · 16/01/2023 18:59

@freckles20 so you wouldn't be walking 8 dogs, a variety of sizes etc then? The truth is that lots of dog walkers are though.

Jenasaurus · 16/01/2023 19:03

What is the answer to this though? I mean in this example it was too many dogs being walked at one time, but in other examples of dog attacks, its when a dog isn't looked after, properly trained, on a lead etc, the people that are responsible already look after the welfare of their dogs and the ones that dont aren't going to bother following any new legislation either. Its scary but some people treat a dog like a status symbol and enjoy the feeling of intimidation that comes with it. These people just wont care about the impact on others in the same way its against the law to do drugs but they still do.

lieselotte · 16/01/2023 19:04

Nameneeded · 16/01/2023 10:24

Controversial I know, but if you cannot walk your own dog and have to pay some one else to do it, having a dog is probably not the most responsible decision you've ever made. Similarly, if you cannot afford pet insurance, you cannot afford a dog.

To an extent, but does that mean that nobody over say the age of 60 can have a pet in case they become infirm? But I could have an illness and be disabled tomorrow.

Unfortunately irresponsible dog walkers are too common place and I think most of us have felt extremely uneasy when we have been surrounded by 6, or more, unknown dogs a walker has out

It's when the dog walkers (all with 4 dogs each as that's what's allowed in my area) decide to meet up. Then you end up with 12-16 dogs.

freckles20 · 16/01/2023 19:05

LordSugarTits · 16/01/2023 18:59

@freckles20 so you wouldn't be walking 8 dogs, a variety of sizes etc then? The truth is that lots of dog walkers are though.

No I wouldn't. None of the dog walkers that I know would walk 8 dogs.

However, we don't know that the walker who died was walking 8 dogs either.

LordSugarTits · 16/01/2023 19:07

True. Although that is what has been reported and nothing has come out to counteract those reports.

Surprised that the identity of the dog walker hasn't come out, usually can't keep people off social media for two minutes.

freckles20 · 16/01/2023 19:08

Notformethankyoukindly · 16/01/2023 18:37

Well said, @freckles20. You sound like a great dog walker, and person.

this has been a very reactive, shoot from the hip thread. In the end a woman has died horribly, and that is the only thing that matters. Everything else is speculation. MN should have some respect.

Thank you. That's exactly it- so much speculation and judgement.

motherfugga · 16/01/2023 19:12

Nameneeded · 16/01/2023 10:24

Controversial I know, but if you cannot walk your own dog and have to pay some one else to do it, having a dog is probably not the most responsible decision you've ever made. Similarly, if you cannot afford pet insurance, you cannot afford a dog.

So true. Would also add that if can't walk your dog regularly then what's the point in having them in the first place.

freckles20 · 16/01/2023 19:19

Survey99 · 16/01/2023 18:34

@freckles20 the negative comments are obviously targetted at irresponsible owners and irresponsible dog walkers and the lack of regulation around both.

Unfortunately irresponsible dog walkers are too common place and I think most of us have felt extremely uneasy when we have been surrounded by 6, or more, unknown dogs a walker has out.

Surely you would also judge a dog walker who walked the breed mix and number of dogs being reported?

I just don't think that we have enough reliable information regarding what happened to make any judgements about the dog walker.

In answer to your question, yes I would judge a walker who walked 8 dogs for many reasons. It is an accident waiting to happen- although in all honesty I wouldn't ever expect someone to be mauled to death because of it.

It is commonplace for 8 or more dogs to be exercised together in daycare or boarding facilities and also in secure dog exercising fields. But it isn't something I would want to have any part of and my insurance also only covers me for 6 dogs (but I choose to limit myself to 4).

WRT breed mix I don't think we have reliable information about this either. The optimal mix is very subjective and depends on so many factors which I won't bore you with.

User359472111111 · 16/01/2023 21:50

You sounds great @freckles20. I think what most people are saying is that the high standards you provide should be regulated so people can’t offer cut-price dangerous/poor services.

And your comments about dangerous dogs and owners just underlines that there should be enforcement of existing law and potentially new regulations to prevent people having dangerously out of control dogs.

You aren’t the problem, but you and the other walkers know who the problems are, and action should be taken to address these dangerous dogs and owners.

SinnerBoy · 17/01/2023 08:39

Those American Bully dogs ought to be banned, there have been lots of cases of them attacking people over the last few years. I remember this one from not far from me, 8 years ago:

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/man-mauled-county-durham-american-7981173

They ripped the owner's arm off, but he still kept them and they attacked another man.

Emotionalsupportviper · 17/01/2023 13:03

SinnerBoy · 17/01/2023 08:39

Those American Bully dogs ought to be banned, there have been lots of cases of them attacking people over the last few years. I remember this one from not far from me, 8 years ago:

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/man-mauled-county-durham-american-7981173

They ripped the owner's arm off, but he still kept them and they attacked another man.

That idiot lives/lived not very far from us, and didn't learn his lesson. He and his partner continued to walk umpteen of these dogs together even after he lost his arm and there was further trouble. I don't know what happened in the end, but he was just a total *rsehole.

I agree that these dogs should be banned, though - I have met good, well-trained Ambulls and they are a pleasant enough dog, but they are incredibly powerful, and need an owner who knows how to handle them properly. Quite honestly there are a few breeds whose size and temperament makes them unsuitable as housesits for the average family IMO. If you can't physically hold your dog back, and you don't bother to train it, then you are asking for trouble.

I've noticed that a lot of people with this type of dog keep them on a slip lead, too. There isn't even a collar to grab if any trouble kicks off. This is illegal, of course - all dogs should wear collar with an identifying disc - but they don't give a monkey's.

Emotionalsupportviper · 17/01/2023 13:04

*housepets, not housesits

SinnerBoy · 17/01/2023 13:08

Yes, didn't he end up in prison for that? My neighbour has an Alsatian, which gets on with my Labrador. She has a friend, who brings her rescue Bully dog round and I keep mine in.

It's quite friendly, but overly boisterous and knocks my old girl over. I'm confident around dogs and can deal with her, but I totally see why people are frightened of them.

They have so much raw power.

Emotionalsupportviper · 17/01/2023 15:35

He did @SinnerBoy . His equally stupid partner used to take packs of the dogs round in his absence. There was further trouble with them and I think almost all of them got impounded, but it's a while ago now and I can't remember the details.

As you so rightly point out, a large, overly boisterous dog can cause a lot of damage - and if it hurts another dog, causing it to yelp, then prey drive can kick in in a heartbeat and you can have a tragedy on your hands.

It always worries me that children will get caught upon this sort of melee, too. The number of massive dogs I've seen with their leads tied around pushchair handles - if they lunge at another dog, or even dart off after a rabbit or squirrel, then how the heck can anyone stop that buggy and baby going with them?

One went into the local park lake after the ducks. Fortunately it wasn't tied to a buggy, but if it had been a child could have drowned. (The swans sorted that one out - it was swimming out after the waterfowl and the cob just attacked it - wings out, hissing, pecking like Lucifer. Dog couldn't wait to get out!)

SinnerBoy · 17/01/2023 15:56

Emotionalsupportviper

His equally stupid partner used to take packs of the dogs round in his absence. There was further trouble with them and I think almost all of them got impounded, but it's a while ago now and I can't remember the details.

I seem to remember about them being taken away. I was just thinking of the woman in Blyth, 3 or 4 years ago. She had Staffordshires and an order to keep them under control, so she let them off in a park - where they bit 12 people.

I let mine in a large pond, once. There were swans over 100 yards away and they made a beeline for her, she didn't want to get out. Once she was out, as long as we stayed a few feet from the edge, the swans were calm.

Notformethankyoukindly · 18/01/2023 19:57

I’m terrified of swans - I’ve seen them try to drown a dog swimming in the river by holding it down with its wing. Me and my lab steer well clear of them. They’re only doing what comes naturally though.

Jenasaurus · 18/01/2023 20:12

Notformethankyoukindly · 18/01/2023 19:57

I’m terrified of swans - I’ve seen them try to drown a dog swimming in the river by holding it down with its wing. Me and my lab steer well clear of them. They’re only doing what comes naturally though.

Swans are scary, but I had a bad encounter with a goose once too

Soothsayer1 · 18/01/2023 20:14

he lost his arm to his dog he still keeps dogs
trauma bonded to the dog then????
AWFUL beyond words
I think we all need to be armed with pepper spray & batons now with these dangerous predators strutting around
then prey drive can kick in in a heartbeat
yep, they need to be banned, I'm going to devote the rest of my life to eradicating the dog menace

XenoBitch · 18/01/2023 20:15

Jenasaurus · 18/01/2023 20:12

Swans are scary, but I had a bad encounter with a goose once too

A friend's son recently witnessed a whole bunch of swans turn on one of their own kind. Poor thing even left the water and tried to hide between his legs. The other swans got to it and broke it's neck and basically mangled it up.

As a kid, we always got told their wings could break your leg. I always give them a wide birth.

FourTeaFallOut · 18/01/2023 20:16

Oh man, geese. They are like mobster if you catch them on a bad day.

dawngreen · 18/01/2023 20:39

Geese just need a wide berth giving to them. Too many idiots letting dogs bother them and their families. They don't like quick movements.

Emotionalsupportviper · 18/01/2023 21:19

Notformethankyoukindly · 18/01/2023 19:57

I’m terrified of swans - I’ve seen them try to drown a dog swimming in the river by holding it down with its wing. Me and my lab steer well clear of them. They’re only doing what comes naturally though.

I've also seen swans using wings to try to force a dog's head under water. A dog out of it's depth - even a biggish dog - is vulnerable

Like any loving parent, they'll protect their young.

Emotionalsupportviper · 18/01/2023 21:21

Jenasaurus · 18/01/2023 20:12

Swans are scary, but I had a bad encounter with a goose once too

Geese are vicious buggers!

I was wearing culottes shorts one time and a goose stuck its head up the leg and bit me on the bum! Didn't half hurt! They have serrated beaks and their bites are very painful.