Yet another person killed from a dog attack.. what is going on

[icelolly12]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64254413

Something needs to be done...reports of dog neglect taken more seriously, harsher prison sentences... any other ideas?

Awful, awful way to die, and makes me think twice about passing dogs off lead on walks.

I do think owners should have to have a license and within this should have to prove a dog is chipped, vaccinated and insured.

How? Serious question.

The dogs found here all seem to be bred in peoples houses. No one knows they exist. They never see a vet. And no, I don’t know everyone, but don’t tell me the drug dealer that lives above the shop down the road is up to date on the vaccinations of all the four dogs he drags around.

These poor dogs never get taken to a vet. And there are people here who brag about driving with no licence or car insurance, they aren’t going to be paying out to insure a dog.

I don’t think people realise just what a lot of people in this county are like or how they live.

Some areas still enforce licenses,

But not in favour of the welfare of the dogs, if a person is found guilty of selling animals without a license (not breeding, simply selling) they can be taken to court by their local authority and simply fined for not holding a license.

But it's not policed, or checked on much. It's just by chance that they are found to be breaking the law.

Muzzled when out and on a lead, unless in designated areas.
I took my son for a walk a few weeks ago and two dogs ran up to us, I let the Labrador sniff my hand and sleeve (didn't put it up to it, just kept it still) and the shit nipped my coat and gave it a little tug.
Dipshit owner said nothing, but his dogs shouldn't be running up to people and certainly not having a nibble.

Don’t be ridiculous.

Almost every report I have ever read about a person being killed by a dog, it was in their own home by a dog known to them or the family.

We need
a total crackdown on backyard breeding and the selling of dogs.
dog licences - tracking ownership and rehoming ( as is intended for chipping)
mandatory training
mandatory pet insurance (like car insurance) with third party liability.

When I was young my parents had our dog licence and rabies vaccine displayed in the window (abroad) as the dog warden was around so often it was just easier!

But again mandatory insurance discounts some people from dog ownership - people on benefits, pensions etc - which would be a shame as they can be a huge benefit for mental and physical health. Again this would result in people having to rehome them as the insurance increases as the dog gets older.

My dogs insurance is £50 pm because I have the public liability and legal fees added on. Not a lot of people could afford that. That's with no claims!

So dog ownership becomes available only to the higher earners. That can't be the answer surely?

It should be mandated that all dogs are muzzled and on leads in public areas. There’s too many cases of dog bites and attacks in public, and there’s no way to distinguish between bad dog owners and good ones, and dogs that may suddenly attack and dogs that never will. So unfortunately that means all dogs have to be treated the same.

@Kevinyoutwat that sounds awful

Exactly.
it's already 'law' to have dogs microchipped - my dog is microchipped, but I know so many people who haven't got their dogs microchipped. It's also 'law' to have dogs wearing an ID tag at all times when out in public, not many people do this either.

There's a man that lives near me who claims to be a 'dog trainer' - I've witnessed him fully kicking and hitting his own dogs, as well as other peoples dogs. He even does this in public! There were times he would tie them to the side of his house (not within his property, he was the end terraced house with a road next to him) and he would just leave them all day.
He never uses leads with any of them either, just walks around wanting them to follow him and if they don't, he loses it and uses violence to 'correct' them.

The RSPCA and other authorities were called, it was reported so many times. Even with video footage of his behaviour towards the dogs.
But because the dogs had food and water in the house, nothing was done.

People still use him, those of us that have witnessed what he's like (there's many of us) have tried to warn people, etc, but people don't listen, he's cheap etc.

Yes, it’s horrible.

But honestly, the demographic of mumsnet, I don’t think people realise that’s life for millions of people. Hands up, I didn’t before we had to move here and I was shocked to shit.

So all the talk of licences and insurance - come and visit me for the day, come with me to pick up my daughter from school with the parents smoking weed in their pyjamas on the street outside while trying to control huge, ugly, uncared for, vicious dogs and ask them what they think about licences or insurance, or vaccinations. They would laugh in your face.

But like I said, no one wants to hear it, or they think you are making it up, or being derogatory, or think it’s just a handful of wrong’uns.

I'm an owner of a bull breed and I agree that lots more needs to be done around dog ownership. Not just to prevent tragic incidents at such as these but also to address the ever increasing anti social behaviour.

• Licenses for dog ownership. To get the licence you must take your puppy to mandatory intro behaviour classes, for adult dogs (rescues) dog behaviour to be assessed. Anyone found with a dog and no licence has the dog removed and destroyed.
• Tighter controls around breeding and ability to sell on place on places like gumtree.
• Dogs to remain on leads in public places; designated enclosed dog areas in parks or private land being the only place they are permitted off lead.

It would take time for the above to be effective but we need to make it "social unacceptable" to do things like allow your precious pooch to run wild (but he's friendly!); buy/sell puppies willy nilly; give them up for rescue after 2 years because it's "too stressful" (because you didn't do your breed research or put the effort in during the puppy states); not properly socialise and train your dog (it's not fair on your dog) etc etc

Once these things become socially unacceptable it would naturally become harder for the more dodgy/underground owners who have the more dangerous breeds to own them because people would be more likely to report them and their dogs would be removed.

But again mandatory insurance discounts some people from dog ownership - people on benefits, pensions etc - which would be a shame as they can be a huge benefit for mental and physical health.

If someone is on benefits then I would question whether they have the means and ability to give a dog a decent quality of life. They are living breathing animals with welfare needs of their own. They are not cuddle toys to make humans feel better.

I live in a similar area and yes some of the suggestions are laughable (no disrespect to anyone). Especially when the police don't even bother to investigate actual crime and are on first name terms with some people. I watched the other week as a copper gave a known dealer a quick pat down and sent him on his way only for the guy to go round the block I assume, park up again and wait for his customer 😬

There is zero chance the people to mostly worry about would bother with insurance, licences etc, but it would punish the decent ones who are lower earners.

I'd actually be offended if this was introduced in a "how stupid do they think we are 🙄" way.

Yeah me too.

Really? Does that extend to children?

What a strange comment. People on benefits are perfectly capable of looking after a dog, or anything else.

Do you honestly think that the people who do that give a monkeys about what is “socially acceptable”? Because they don’t.

I’d love some of you to come here for the day, I think your hair would turn white. Socially acceptable is not something that applies to any behaviour.

(Sorry, it’s just a bugbear of mine, especially on mumsnet that has a middle class demographic that people don’t realise what life is like for others).

This is what I was going to say.

There will still be some illegal dog sales/illegal dog breeding but tighter controls on the breeding and sale of dogs will reduce the number of unsuitable animals being sold to unsuitable people.

If Susan-down-the-street wants to breed her dog and sell the puppies then she should be registered and licensed with the council (and pay a fee for this to fund the scheme, the cost of which she can recoup via the sale of the puppies). She should have to register all pregnancies/births with the local authority, keep a record of who each puppy has been sold to and they should be chipped with the new owners details before leaving her care, that information (including proof of chipping) should then be registered with the local authority. The sale of animals via Gumtree, Facebook marketplace, Preloved, etc should be banned. When a dog is rehomed, there should be a document registered with the local authority by the previous owner detailing who the new owner is, a bit like people do with a V5C when buying/selling a car, and all rehomed dogs should have to be spayed/castrated first with proof of this provided as part of the transfer of ownership.

I agree too that there should be a helpline number/email inbox at every local authority for reporting dangerous dog, dogs not being looked after properly, etc.

I very much doubt this is a dog walker. Dogs who kill are almost always of certain breeds and often have a particular type of owner. They generally not the type to pay a dog walker to walk their dog. My guess is that they were kennelled somewhere and got out. Maybe fighting dogs or maybe breeding dogs.

Oh god so it attacked random stranger?

Dog licences, unless properly policed and funded wouldn't make any difference. It would be very hit and miss. Careful, honest owners would obey the law but gangs and drug dealers wouldn't give a toss.

Yep, its socially unacceptable for people to do spice in a busy town centre in the afternoon but it still happens.

People like that, and dodgy dog owners, give zero shits if they are being socially unacceptable. Its funny in a bit of a sad way that people think these types being looked down on would bother them.

I am an owner of a breed frequently given up to rescue when it reaches its teens too because it's demanding. I think @FrangipaniBlue is right. We really need a rethink of dog ownership in this country. There's no right to an animal, when we take one on we just have responsibilities.

I absolutely accept enforcing those responsibilities takes policing and LA resources which are in short supply. But the biggest predictor of dog aggression is always previous cruelty and neglect by humans. So it's a question of priorities. If we want to prevent fatalities we need to prevent harm to dogs in the first place, which means dogs need to live in settings where their basic needs are met.

We're really fucking up right now. We have the furbaby brigade keeping a whole industry of gimmicks for dogs in business. And rampant overbreeding of dogs with poor health. It's the worst of all possible worlds.

???

All dog attacks recorded in uk listed in the link below for anybody curious, I've seen other threads where people are arguing over breeds etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofffataldoggattacksinntheUniteddKingdom

Recent Guardian Article exploring increase in dog attacks

Also the link is interesting to see 'how' some of them happened etc. very sad