Page 8 | Family missing with newborn....

ChocChocYum · 2023-01-07T21:49:12+00:00

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/23233264.bolton-m61-appeal-help-finding-missing-family-newborn-baby/ Where are they? How can they go missing? Hope they are ok

orbitalcrisis · 08/01/2023 10:15

They've probably been told that the baby will be taken at birth. In situations like this there are people that will pay for you to get you out of the country but it has to be done before the baby is born as they can't put a protection order on the baby before it is born. People usually go to Ireland or France but Brexit has reduced the options. Poland accepts asylum applications from people at risk of losing their children to social services so they might be trying to get there.

piedbeauty · 08/01/2023 10:15

@Itsneveralways - I just don't believe you. I can't believe that FII is diagnosed so often or that social workers are taking children away on flimsy pretexts.

And you are incredibly unprofessional to talk about real people and cases on a thread like this.

Itsneveralways · 08/01/2023 10:24

piedbeauty · 08/01/2023 10:15

@Itsneveralways - I just don't believe you. I can't believe that FII is diagnosed so often or that social workers are taking children away on flimsy pretexts.

And you are incredibly unprofessional to talk about real people and cases on a thread like this.

you dont have to believe me I’ll be honest I would never have believed it myself 3 years ago. Unfortunately it’s true

MrsPinkCock · 08/01/2023 10:25

Grimblygrumbly · 08/01/2023 09:20

I was a social worker for 12 years and FII is the most unlikely case to present. I never personally had any cases of that and only saw one in any of the teams throughout my career. That’s probably thousands of cases I’m talking about there. It is also notoriously difficult to prove and has a very rigorous procedure to go through to diagnose, so I’m very curious where you are from to see such an abundance of cases.

Also, if you ‘covertly’ record professionals, you would be unable to then use that evidence in court, as legally you must make people aware when you are recording them.

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That’s not true.

Covert recordings are 100% admissible in the UK civil courts if they are relevant.

I’ve used them several times and once had a hearing adjourned to allow a transcript to be made when my client decided to announce on the first day of a hearing that they had a series of relevant covert recordings.

BloodAndFire · 08/01/2023 10:29

liveforsummer · 08/01/2023 10:15

It's evolved in to something completely unrelated though. Agree maybe time to start your own thread about ss criteria and FII. I keep coming back to see discussion on this case when I get an notification

There's nothing irrelevant about discussing ss involvement in a thread about this case.

Also, please stop shouting at other posters, telling everyone what they can and can't say, and turn off your notifications if you find them so distressing.

liveforsummer · 08/01/2023 10:32

I did not shout, neither am I distressed 😆. Just interested in the case not 2 people arguing over something entirely unrelated. It's not even known that there is ss involvement / that is speculation and the FII ongoing argument is entirely unrelated

OneFrenchEgg · 08/01/2023 10:34

My takeaway is that it is pretty terrifying that parents at risk of losing their child can't share the documents 'evidencing' the risk. Wtf. My mind is blown. So if I wanted to get some advice on it what could I do?

NeedToChangeName · 08/01/2023 10:34

gogohmm · 08/01/2023 08:45

Children are only removed as a last resort. Mistakes are made with children removed unnecessarily but they are rare, rarer than the number of children left with parents too long.

My friend is the head of childrens social work for my county, she has 2 women who have had 17 children removed between them, both drug addicted, alcoholics, and earn money from the oldest profession. Alas, they have tried everything to persuade both women (who know each other) to stop getting pregnant, residential rehab, then access to the non adopted children, even a promise of a new council flat each on condition of long term contraception - all failed, one is pregnant currently.

So sad all around, it's a vicious cycle for the women and their damaged children didn't ask to be born.

@gogohmm Does your friend discuss all this with you? Surely it's confidential info that shouldn't be shared

XYZ4321 · 08/01/2023 10:34

About 5 years ago I unwittingly got involved with a couple, she was pregnant and her older children ( not his) were in care. They told me a very sad story involving bereavement which resulted in the two dc being taken into care.
They both assumed this baby would stay with them but I wondered howSS could leave a third child if they’d decided she couldn’t look after the first two. Sadly the baby was stillborn and it was only after this I realised they were both long term drug users , though she may well have stopped using, I’ve no knowledge or proof either way. I think she saw the drug using as separate to her love for a new child ( she didn’t talk much about older two, though I thought it odd that he said very quickly they wouldn’t get them back)

Maybe this mum in the news has other problems — drug use, violent partner, drug dealer partner, I don’t know — but sees her care of her new baby as totally separate and isolated from her problems?
My guess is they’re trying for Holland or France.

angela99999 · 08/01/2023 10:37

Darthwazette · 07/01/2023 22:18

I wonder if they were on Social Services radar and don’t want to be found.

This sounds possible. Maybe they have previously had a child taken into care.
Apologies if someone else has suggested this, I've not read all the posts.

Waterfallgirl · 08/01/2023 10:38

AnneLovesGilbert · 07/01/2023 23:23

Did it work? What happened to the baby?

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@AnneLovesGilbert the baby was removed. They had moved to try to avoid social services but still had her baby in a hospital. ( I assume maternity notes were flagged?)

Itsneveralways · 08/01/2023 10:39

OneFrenchEgg · 08/01/2023 10:34

My takeaway is that it is pretty terrifying that parents at risk of losing their child can't share the documents 'evidencing' the risk. Wtf. My mind is blown. So if I wanted to get some advice on it what could I do?

Exactly

This is why I helped so many parents. Perhaps it was legally wrong but to me it was morally right.

HollyBobb · 08/01/2023 10:40

There’s nothing about the father online. Do you think he could be the same man who was accused of shooting someone in a nightclub (same name, age and area) in 2017?

liveforsummer · 08/01/2023 10:40

It's interesting thats she's a very accomplished woman - and a well known public figure in some circles. Previously a senior researcher at Al Jazeera. Not the typical demographic for this sort of case. No info on the dad at all, no social media presence. It's been suggested in other discussions that he's also the father of the other children

Itsneveralways · 08/01/2023 10:41

its obviously important to protect a child’s identity but it’s equally important for parents to be bow to defend themselves and access support to do so

Itsneveralways · 08/01/2023 10:41

*able to

ssinvolvement · 08/01/2023 10:46

We had social services involvement at one point in the past (not because of me, because of something their dad had done).

What I learned from my interaction with social services is that the outcome largely depends on where you are in the UK, but also with what kind of social worker you are dealing.

Our social worker was very reasonable and worked with us. At the time, I talked to other women online that were going through similar things. A lot of them had social workers that were much harsher with them. A lot of it depends on the personal beliefs of the social worker.

What we went through didn't involve child removal of course, but I can imagine when it comes to child removal cases, it largely also depends on the kind of social workers you are dealing with.

Of course there are open and shut cases, for instance with drug addicted parents. But there must be some cases where a lot depends on personal interpretation.

Itsneveralways · 08/01/2023 10:50

ssinvolvement · 08/01/2023 10:46

We had social services involvement at one point in the past (not because of me, because of something their dad had done).

What I learned from my interaction with social services is that the outcome largely depends on where you are in the UK, but also with what kind of social worker you are dealing.

Our social worker was very reasonable and worked with us. At the time, I talked to other women online that were going through similar things. A lot of them had social workers that were much harsher with them. A lot of it depends on the personal beliefs of the social worker.

What we went through didn't involve child removal of course, but I can imagine when it comes to child removal cases, it largely also depends on the kind of social workers you are dealing with.

Of course there are open and shut cases, for instance with drug addicted parents. But there must be some cases where a lot depends on personal interpretation.

I agree I think there’s huge pressure on social workers to get it right . Many would prefer to I assume remove a child wrongly / too soon than not remove and something awful happens . We’ve all seen how ss are attacked when a child dies so there’s huge pressure on them to act correctly

liveforsummer · 08/01/2023 10:51

HollyBobb · 08/01/2023 10:40

There’s nothing about the father online. Do you think he could be the same man who was accused of shooting someone in a nightclub (same name, age and area) in 2017?

Potentially I guess - there are few reports on it though and no pictures attached. It's a pretty ubiquitous name too.

JungleJungle · 08/01/2023 10:52

NeedToChangeName · 08/01/2023 10:34

@gogohmm Does your friend discuss all this with you? Surely it's confidential info that shouldn't be shared

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I was thinking the same. My mum is a social worker and would never share such details. She never talks about specifics of cases.

ssinvolvement · 08/01/2023 10:53

liveforsummer · 08/01/2023 10:40

It's interesting thats she's a very accomplished woman - and a well known public figure in some circles. Previously a senior researcher at Al Jazeera. Not the typical demographic for this sort of case. No info on the dad at all, no social media presence. It's been suggested in other discussions that he's also the father of the other children

It's wrong to think that only a particular demographic has social service involvement. "Life happens" in all sort of families.

mixedrecycling · 08/01/2023 10:55

Itsneveralways · 08/01/2023 10:50

I agree I think there’s huge pressure on social workers to get it right . Many would prefer to I assume remove a child wrongly / too soon than not remove and something awful happens . We’ve all seen how ss are attacked when a child dies so there’s huge pressure on them to act correctly

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Yes, I think SWs are under huge pressure, and often there is no 'good' solution, but they're trying to find the 'least worst'.

Having said that, it is the judge and the court that make the decision about whether to remove a child. The SW will provide their report to the court, and can be challenged by the parent's lawyers. The court decides whether a) the threshold for a court order has been met, and b) what that court order should be - not the SW.

The SWs seem to get most of the flack.

OneFrenchEgg · 08/01/2023 10:57

So who can parents talk to?
Could I discuss with my friend?
A charity?
My parents?

liveforsummer · 08/01/2023 10:59

It's wrong to think that only a particular demographic has social service involvement. "Life happens" in all sort of families.

I'm not talking about ss involvement though - I talking about this specific case! People missing/on the run with their babies are rarely successful public figures with aristocratic family.

x2boys · 08/01/2023 10:59

I live in Bolton and have read bits on the Bolton news headlines ,I assumed they were on the run from social services .