Family missing with newborn....

[ChocChocYum]

www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/23233264.bolton-m61-appeal-help-finding-missing-family-newborn-baby/

Where are they? How can they go missing? Hope they are ok

You’re wrong there……
Also, I didn’t mean diagnose in the medical sense anyway

It contravenes the court for a start.

I wouldn’t class helping people break the law as a productive use of time.

We had not ever interfered with the legal process we simply assist in making sure a parent has every bit of evidence to counter allegations and that nothing has been overlooked so that everyone has access to the facts and truth

FII and MSBP are not the same thing

I think you need to take that up with the NHS, who state that it is…..

Reading confidential court documents is interring with the legal process

im seriously worried you are a professional to be honest. The amount of shit you are spewing on this thread is breathtaking

FII is synonymous with but not the same as MSBP

People can read it and make their own decisions. I mentioned in my first post some websites and the BASW guidance that might be informative

Ive said multiple times as well I’ve been involved with cases where ss have absolutely acted in a timely and appropriate manner with removal but I can’t hide my shock at some other cases

My impression of your FII discussion is both of you could be correct. I saw children placed from many authorities and they operated to surprisingly variable standards, how they worked with professionals, collected evidence etc. what happened in some areas, didn’t in others.
Some seemed to manage siblings meetings religiously as a priority, some decided quickly it was ‘easier’ for siblings not to meet for various reasons.
Some had child development centres with joined up reports, some seemed to have people never meet between teams. Some had no one but the social worker ever present in a meeting, some would send a school nurse across the country to give input or invite SLT etc.
Some had local schemes for mothers at risk of losing children with intensive support, some had no equivalent at all and used mother and baby placements out of area at best- which were hard to get.
The culture variations were huge, some were paternalistic or genuinely working with families on a more equal footing. Even the layout of rooms would give this away, some had a row of people at a desk in a wall, others a circle of chairs in a classroom after school.
Sometimes people were overworked to the extent it was the only real reason for a lack of action. Sometimes professional opinion got a huge weighting.

I don’t see it as one joined up system that we can make too many presumptions of.

I’m an ex social worker and I absolutely agree with all of this. I don’t think removal, especially of older children, always results in a better outcome for the children involved. Sadly I think often it’s balancing between 2 bad outcomes to see which might be the least harmful.

I also don’t think there is intensive enough support for parents who might be able to keep their children. Certainly as a social worker I felt there was only time for “monitoring” and not proper support, there were few few support services to refer to and what was available had long waiting lists. Also “therapy” or thorough clinical assessment of children and parents needs were rarely done unless actually requested in court.

I understand what you’re saying, unfortunately the NHS disagree hence why they have said on the post I put above ‘Fabricated or Induced Illness used to be known as Munchausen’s by Proxy’. My professional training would also concur with this. Could you point me in the right area to some peer reviewed research or a further health provider who support your view that FII and Munchausen’s by proxy (which is now a non-existent term) are not the same?

Well those photos look like police mugshots don’t they so….

poor baby, I really hope s/he’s found safely

I think ‘balancing two bad outcomes’ is an excellent description. It’s complex, and we often do it badly.

The thread is being rather derailed here .... a quick search suggests she has 3 other dc. I do wonder what level of ss involvement there is with the family as no mention of them

I thought at least hers, looked like a passport photo

Quite

This is from the BASW guidance for social workers it clearly states FII is not a diagnosis and not the same as factitious disorder imposed on another which is the new term for MSBP

We’ve had a lot of dealing with SS over the years in relation to DSD. Three different councils in fact and none of them would take a child away without serious and/or longstanding concerns. Mainly ongoing class A drug use or domestic violence… Even then it’s difficult. The threshold is now so incredibly high post Covid that unless there are serious, ongoing and proven concerns I can’t imagine they’d just swoop in and snatch a child.

A good friend is a Legal Aid solicitor who acts for parents where the LA have 'instituted proceedings'.

She has been doing the job for 20 years or so (sadly, has on a number of occasions been asked to act for a mother/mother-to-be on the grounds that she was the solicitor for the woman's parent when the LA was taking action over her as a child).

I did ask her a while back whether she thought the LAs in her area (her firm covers a number of London boroughs) were too quick to take action. She was very clear that in 20 years there were a handful of cases where she thought the LA was wrong to start proceedings, but in each of those cases it was a borderline decision and they weren't being completely unreasonable, just should have given the parent(s) a bit longer and another chance.

But in none of that handful of cases was the LA being completely unreasonable - after all, in the end the LA applies to the court for whatever order they think is appropriate, and it is the judge that decides. The SWs make the case to the LA lawyer, who decides whether to make the court application. The case then goes to court, and the parent(s) have Legal Aid to get proper legal advice (in these cases Legal Aid is not means tested).

And a number of her clients have been successful in opposing the LA applications - in her view for some people the LA making the application was the push they needed to take the situation seriously and make the changes their children needed. In the majority of cases where a child cannot stay with a parent they end up in a kinship placement i.e. within the family.

Having said that, some LAs are better than others - some have been ranked as Inadequate by OFSTED and some publicly criticised by judges for their poor standards and decision making.

I'm not saying they don't have good reason to in this case- they may well. But you are utterly deluded if you think they always operate in the interests of children. They often take a heavy-handed approach 'just in case' which leads to inappropriate care orders being pursued in court.

I don't think you know what 'synonymous' means.

CAN THE DERAILERS PLEASE STOP 🛑

FII is closely associated with MSBP . It’s very similar but not the same ….

Conversations evolve it’s not derailing

It's evolved in to something completely unrelated though. Agree maybe time to start your own thread about ss criteria and FII. I keep coming back to see discussion on this case when I get an notification