Family missing with newborn....

[ChocChocYum]

www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/23233264.bolton-m61-appeal-help-finding-missing-family-newborn-baby/

Where are they? How can they go missing? Hope they are ok

Being born and no medical care is neglect
Living on the streets is neglect

I think we DO know she's neglecting him

If this isn't neglect then what is?

There's been no antenatal or postnatal care whatsoever - that's medical neglect.

She's going to be struggling to keep baby warm.

Keeping baby clean without access to hot running water is going to be difficult.

If she's having trouble with her milk supply, how would she sterilise bottles in a tent?

There's likely unsafe sleep practices going on.

I have no doubt that she wants to be a good mum, but camping in a tent presents so many practical barriers to that, so much so that I'd be certain baby's needs aren't being met in several ways. I'm sure she loves the baby, but sometimes love isn't enough.

She isn’t living like this by choice, but through desperation.

Of course you may be right and she may be a known risk due to other factors but her behaviour right now is not indicative of that.

If someone was going to take DS away from me and give him to an unknown person or people where I wasn’t allowed contact with him or to see him until his eighteenth birthday too right I would do everything I could to stop that happening. Absolutely I would.

Every morning I hope there'll be news the baby has been found safe and well.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_classics/922821-drug-dependant-baby-advice-needed?page=1

This thread, for anyone who hasn't come across it before, is started by a sadly now deceased woman who fostered a drug dependent baby girl. It's a heart wrenching and uplifting read.

Didn't see that before, so sad, thanks for sharing!
I'm hoping they'll all be found safe too & get the help they need 🤞

I’ve been debating linking this for all the “baby needs it’s mother” twats on here, if this doesn’t open their eyes then nothing will.

I just feel so sorry for the mother - the whole thing sounds absolutely awful

My eyes are already opened, thanks. I know there are sometimes good reasons why babies have to be separated from their mothers. I have never claimed otherwise.

But just as it is possibly to blindly opine against removal - to insist that there are never any cases where a baby should be removed from its mother - it is also possible to blithely assume that SS never make mistakes, that they always act fairly and reasonably and that all cases of removal are as an absolute last resort and I don’t believe that to be the case.

In this particular case, I do not know the details so I have reserved judgement. What I do believe is that stating that because she is sleeping in a tent, she is neglecting her baby is not accurate - she is sleeping in a tent because that’s the only way she can keep him (for now.)

There may be other, good, grounds for removal. I don’t know. But that isn’t one of them.

@Getinajollymood

How is avoiding pre and post-natal care and sleeping in a tent in January NOT neglectful? I can’t see a way that that could be described as providing adequate care for a newborn.

When the alternative is (from her point of view) worse.

I’d do it, if it meant I stayed with ds. No way would I be handing him over to who knows who: not a chance.

Those people who have seen them and chosen not to report are implicit in this baby's suffering - currently, sleeping rough (can't believe people here are defending this for a newborn based on parents 'doing their best') and whatever else may be in his or hers future with a violent sex offender for a father.

and at this stage after what the parents have done the baby will certainly be removed from them even if it wouldn't have necessarily been previously. Not allowing the baby medical care or a home to live in is extreme and wilful neglect. Hopefully that baby finds their way into a safe pair of arms soon.

It’s the devil and the deep blue sea, isn’t it?

The outcomes for children in care are not good. A baby boy was murdered by a woman who wanted to adopt him two years ago this month. That’s highly unusual but it does suggest that the vetting system is not infallible (what is, I know) but I wouldn’t think to myself a sort of king Solomon ideal that it is best for someone else to have my baby as long as they could look after him.

Some may say that is in itself neglectful and I disagree - it smacks of desperation to me. I wouldn’t hand my DS over, especially not if I had access to money.

It’s hard to know if I would report or not given I don’t know why they want to remove the baby in the first place. I do know mistakes are made and I also can empathise with her desperation and her distress, whether she ‘deserves’ to lose her child or not.

@MeinKraft I'm not saying it's right, I'm just thinking out loud. Loads of people don't want to get involved or report people - I've been laughed at for raising concerns before by peers who don't have safeguarding training as part of their roles, so don't get the need.

Oh yeah sorry I was just making a general comment on that point, I didn't mean you to think I was explaining to you why it's not ok not to report. I suspect nearly all of us here are in agreement that the baby needs to be found

Yes absolutely. I have a lot of instinctive sympathy for the mother but no doubt that the baby needs finding and assessing / removing.

I’m not a twat thanks 🤣. But I don’t think we know the full story here. Is the mother a drug user? I haven’t seen that reported anywhere.

I know of someone who was/is a foster carer for parents and babies who need to be in foster care. I honestly was shocked. Very unsuitable people. Filthy house and very chaotic lifestyle themselves. Very churchy people and a desire to do good, but I wouldn’t leave a vulnerable person in their care.

The alternative is that she hands the baby over. Surely the first rule of parenting is that you put the baby's needs (to be warm, dry, adequately medically cared for) before your own? That's why the 'my baby, my rules' mantra is so dangerous. We don't own our babies, we owe them a duty of care.

I know that growing up in care is very far from ideal, and I'm sure she does believe she will be able to keep her child safe. I'm sure there are many reasons why she's made the choices she has - under his control/mental illness etc. but objectively we know that baby is very much at risk sadly

One thing I think we all do agree on is that we wish the baby well. We may disagree on how that’s best provided, but everyone is coming at this from a good place if you like.

But yes, if someone said to me that they were taking my child and giving him to people I did not know and would never know and I’d just have to hope for the best - I wouldn’t.

Yes, sadly not every parent can put their child's needs before their own.

That's why others need to get involved to keep the child safe.

Maybe she could go to one of the mother and baby units. She clearly wants to keep her baby. That’s why they are on the run. Unless it’s something totally different we aren’t being told? 200 police officers for this case alone seems a lot.

Agreed, but she isn’t living in a tent because she just fancies it, is she?

I wonder if the same amount of police and press coverage will be given to the two escaped murderers in NI?

Before that though there will have been many discussions and agreements made with the mother of a child potentially to be removed that if she leaves her abusive partner/gives up drugs/whatever then the child will be able to stay with her. And they would be supported to make those life changes. If they don't change they are indicating that they won't be able to put the child's needs first.