Infuriated at lack of good female role models for children

[eynewbie2023]

The likes of Kim K and Cardi B are DISGUSTING! Cardi B admitted to robbing/drugging men, there are naked photos of her on the internet and her raps are vulgar and talentless. Kim K got famous off a sex tape that is still online and shows off her excessive consumption. She also encourages impressionable women to feel bad about their bodies by lying about their own surgeries!

When i was a teen, I wish I heard about Ruth Bader Ginsberg instead of these 2 clowns

All very true. But why do you think people have a responsibility to be good influences unless they are your teacher or scoutmaster for instance. Would you tell a child to blindly follow one of those? Doesn't sound a wise plan to me. Kim Kardashian and Cardi B sound much more benign because discusting as they are at least they're unlikely to be actually looking after your child.

And if someone starts out as a good role model in your eyes what do you tell children if they fall off their pedestal? People do. Do you pretend it didn't happen and look for someone else to do your parenting for you?

That's the problem with telling young people to look up to others rather than thinking for themselves..

Kanye West or whatever he's calling himself this morning has a large following. There are more of them than there are Jews in the whole world who he blames for society's ills and incites hatred and violence against.

But for some reason @eynewbie2023 singles out his wife as a dicusting influence. How odd.

Nobody tells people to look up to others. It is an innately human thing to look up to people with a lot of exposure/wealth. Have you read about the evolutionary psychology behind the celebrity phenomena? People see celebs as role models bc these celebs are so visible and ostensibly have a great deal of wealth i.e. they are high status people and in our evolutionary history, humans have tended to pay more attention to high status people in their society so that they can emulate these high status people's behaviours and become high status themselves.
Unfortauntelty, our current status gives out high status to people who are DISGUSTING. I only talk about the female celebs but the male celebs are DISGUSTING TOO
However, I do not talk about male role models bc as a woman with no sons, I DON'T CARE
Let some men care about that instead.

This thread is about FEMALE role models. Kanye, albeit as awful if not more awful than his wife, is not a woman, so I don't care.
Also, Kim K helped Kanye bully Taylor Swift by claiming that Taylor approved some vulgar sexist lyrics about her in a song when Taylor did not. Kim K is no friend to women. Kim K also steals trends from black women to make herself popular.

For someone who dislikes the Kardashians so much, you pay an awful lot of attention to them.

I think that you are forgetting what it's like to be a teen.

You can follow the Kardashians for their makeup content but also watch Instagram tutorials on how to bake a cake or watch football clips on TikTok. What I'm trying to say is that people are normally more rounded than marketing stereotypes suggest.

You are also missing the point that the wealthy can buy followers and many of the followers will be media or companies that want to know when the next gimmick is announced. Plus it might be my feed but I see more about their kids these days? While I don't agree with kids making money for parents on SM, it's not something that I have control over. The biggest people on SM will have professionals who know how to increase traffic and follows. Just because the Kardashians dominate in terms of follows, I don't agree that it's necessarily what people in real life are talking about. On the Internet people might be talking about a new boyfriend of the family but that's a niche created by the professionals to make things seem more important than they are.

You're equating 'celebrity' with 'role model'. It's a very immature and short sighted way of looking at things. Lots of people have a big following online, this does not equal 'role model'. I can only imagine you're quite young so maybe will grow up to realise one day that sex isn't just for the male gaze. It's not a taboo for women to enjoy sex, enjoy talking about sex and to use sex for their own gains, to make money or enhance their careers. If they are in control of it, which both women you mention are.

There are plenty of female role models/inspiring women in sports, science, the arts, politics, and all through out history. You maybe need to broader your horizons if you're only looking at social media for validation on who is a role model. Many people have amazing female role models in their own families! Role models don't need to be current celebs and parents are the ones who should be guiding and educating their children that there is more to life than the Kardashians. But just incase you didn't know, girls can be intelligent and strong and have great role models BUT still like the Kardashians! It's not one or the other.

Why are you spending so much time following what these people do? I have heard of the Kardashians etc but know very little about them as their lifestyle does not interest me. (There are always going to be negative people in the world, but we don't have to obsess about them as you are doing.)
The same applies to my young adult daughter. We get on with our lives and focus on good things and good people- which seems to be what your parents have done.
Perhaps you would be better staying off social media and spending time being a good rôle model yourself? Which is absolutely nothing to do with how many followers you have on social media!

This thread is about FEMALE role models.

@eynewbie2023 this thread can be about whatever anyone wants it to be. You started it but you don't own it.

I think Cardi B is a groundbreaking musician. WAP was about ownership of previously male dominated narratives of the male gaze. Kim K is an incredibly successful and powerful businesswoman and mother. They’re both taking their sexuality and monetising it under their own steam. It’s a different paradigm to outdated 1970s “male gaze” feminism. It’s you focusing on their sexualisation and making it problematic.

So you are fine with your daughters, sisters etc. making sex tapes, becoming strippers and rapping about their wet ass ps?
Also, how is Cardi B a groundbreaking musician? Jacob Collier is a groundbreaking musician. And plenty of musicians lean into their sexuality for their music (Madonna was the first, so she should be the groundbreaker here)
How is Kim K a good businesswoman? She never invented products that improved society or built up a company on the same scale as say Amazon, Apple, etc. All she does is sell badly made and unethically made products based on her image
sustain-able.medium.com/5-books-about-bad-ass-heriones-5ab3f9b32023?sk=f6a5b30057053114215e74c308ac95ca

DD is currently doing the rounds of exams/interviews for senior schools. She was asked who her role model was at one and replied with the athlete Daryll Neita. This was completely uncoached by me, but they are members of the same athletics club so makes sense. She has absolutely zero interest in the likes of KK and Cardi B.

I'm a secondary teacher and an end of term Christmas quiz recently revealed that quite a few of my year 7s (well over half the class) have absolutely no idea who Kim k is and, out of those who had heard of her, very few could identify her in a photo. Conversely, they were all able to identify Greta Thunberg and Boris Johnson. Make of that what you will

You appear to think Ronaldo is a better person than Kim K because she has a sex tape and he sexually assaulted people says a lot about your subconscious/unconscious misogyny.

She has also helped saved someone from death row and is trying to become a lawyer to reform the criminal justice system

I'm not a fan of the kardasians mostly because I have no interest in them, but even I knew about that. So the fact that you think kicking a football around shows more talent than training in law and saving a person's life is kind of sad.

If I had to choose which one to be stuck in a room with I would choose Kim every day over Ronaldo.

@eynewbie2023 you can say pussy here OP. You don't need to abbreviate it. Maybe if you embraced female empowered sexuality more yourself, you wouldn't be so uptight about it.

I actually think the rise of women’s sport and similar has provided Girls with a much wider range of postive role models for their lives. That said for anyone the biggest influences will be those closest to the person with celebs only having a minimal impact on the grand scheme of things.

Kim has failed the baby bar multiple times already. The baby bar is the same level as a degree in law, and millions of people in the U.S. have degrees in law, some even from prestigious institutions such as Harvard
With the money Kim is spending on her law education, she could have hired already qualified lawyers to campaign on her behalf for causes she cares about
Also, I never said that Ronaldo was a better person thank Kim, they're both terrible people
Also, you realise that a lot of celeb philanthropy is just PR? And how much money has Kim spent on good causes compared to the money she spends on her irresponsible consumption, e.g. her polluting private jet, her endless clothes no doubt not made ethically, her multiple residences, her blood diamonds etc.

Prince Charles preaches about the environment but lives in multiple palaces and uses jets, and helicopters, wears expensive designer clothes etc. all activities which produce a tremendous amounts of pollution

There are plenty of people who look up to Ronaldo, Kim K, Prince Charles etc. bc they are rich and famous, not bc they have amazing characters or positive impacted society

But yes, playing football to elite level is probably harder than making a sex tape and botching your face with endless rounds of surgery

So can I say pussy at my workplace? In front of my children? Shall I encourage my nieces to drop out of their medical degrees and become strippers?

She's passed the baby bar

and apparently you are annoyed with her both because she uses her money and because instead of using her money to hire people to do things for her she's improving her education. are women with sex tapes ot allowed to better themselves educationally any more?

Kim was a 23 year old in a relationship with a 41 year old who helped her mum sell a sex tape of her daughter. Yes still its the 23 year old whose blamed.

If you want better role models for women be a better role model.

Among my nieces and nephews there are a number who range between the ages of 9,11,12, 14 and 17. Not one of them looks up to nor wants to emulate the lifestyles of either the kardashians or Cardi B, surprisingly though - they can all hold quite valid debates and conversations about them without resorting to personal insults and derogatory slurs (which appears to be more than can be said for op!)

what would your thoughts be on Lizzo @eynewbie2023 had a great convo with my 14 year old niece about her on NYD

What the fuck are you on about? This is MN you moron, not your workplace.

Kim K/Cardi B aren't the issue here. You are. You can look to someone for inspiration without resorting to misogynistic put downs aimed at other women down. You don't have to aspire to be like them, you don't have to agree or like their lifestyles. Your nasty vitriol aimed at these women is the most revolting thing here. I hope to god you're not raising girls.

This👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Your argument here is the most bonkers, nonsensical, contradictory and irrational argument I've ever read on MN!

You have singled out 2 women who haven't lived their lives by your standards or perception of appropriate, made mistakes like millions of other people but have ultimately have managed to make a success out of their lives and you have chosen to focus on their flaws rather than their positives to justify your opinion that they're not fit to be role models.

Your argument is based on a lot of assumptions not facts. You ignore the positive things that these women have done in order to justify your logic.

Everyone has skeletons in their closet OP, it's just you've selected the two most well known women who chose not to keep those skeletons in there and own their past (and use it to their advantage) in order to justify your rather irrational opinion.

@LolaSparkle OP can't debate her way out of a lift let alone any cohesive argument. I keep wanting to walk away but everything they respond it just gets more and more absurd!

@daisyjgrey it's called being narrow minded 🤦🏻‍♀️ she's absolutely bonkers lol!