Is this the correct use of 'myself '?

[Cracklingfire1]

Is the the correct use of myself? I always thought myself was just used as a reflexive but Charles used it in his speech below and I'm assuming this has been proof read and agreed so must be right, if so why is it right in this example?

"I am reminded of the deeply touching letters, cards and messages which so many of you have sent my wife and myself and I cannot thank you enough for the love and sympathy you have shown our whole family."

PAFMO · Today 09:37
My last link contains examples of JA using "myself" and the explanation of why it would have been chosen.

It seems it was used widely as a stylistic device when she was writing, then fell out of fashion in the following century.

Thank you.

@sanityisamyth well you're wrong here I'm afraid.

IIRC The late queen always wrote her speech herself because it was her personal message at Christmas. I think she ran it past advisors and the govt saw it, purely as a courtesy, but it was her words, so I'd assume the same is true for HMK.

Glad I am not alone in the eyes to heaven on this one.
Probably trying to make himself sound more like "one of the people". At least there was no sprinkling of "like" or "literally" and his past participles were in order.
I want to scream every time I hear "she's came" or "he's went" and the American use of "bring" has been creeping in slowly for a while, too.
The other prefix I hate is "pre-" As in pre-prepared - nope, prepared means got ready in advance. Pre-existing - nope, existing means something that has already manifested itself such as an existing illness. Pre-order - nope, order is to reserve something in advance, no need for a "pre-".

Very much agree. People think "me" is rude. We had a letter from school signing off with "please do not hesitate to contact myself". 🙄

Hm, Wikipedia says “Under the reign of Queen Elizabeth II, the themes and direction of the speech were decided by the Queen and the text was largely written by the Queen herself, sometimes with assistance from Prince Philip and her staff.”

but the footnote for the source for that assertion is an article from The Times which actually says “on several occasions” she has largely written it herself”, which suggests that wasn’t in fact the normal procedure.

Conscious that The Times isn’t necessarily 100% authoritative on the matter, and also doesn’t answer whether or not it was Charles’ Christmas message was largely/wholly written by a speechwriter…

Have they stopped teaching the difference between subjects and objects in schools?

No, but teenagers have stopped learning it! English teachers are desperately trying to address the damage done by the fact that all many kids read now are posts online - they no longer have the sustained exposure to good grammar and punctuation that reading books gives us, so the lesson they spent learning about subjects and objects with MrsOnlyLivingBoy is washed away by a tsunami of Instagram posts and TikTok videos.

Oh dear…

I know. After six pages saying exactly the opposite.

"...to my wife and to me" would have worked...
I know myself is wrong, but! I actually understand the reluctance to use the word "me" as it introduces a sprinkling of "me me me" to the speech, which is the opposite of the desired impression.

Well, if HMK didn't write it himself I'd expect presumably professional speechwriters not to make that particular grammatical howler - which for me, along with the heartfelt references to the late queen, suggests he did write it himself.

Anyway - whoever wrote it got it wrong.

Whatever the intention, it just ended up making Charles look a bit dim.

Yes, that's one of the reasons observed in one of the links I found above, which is interesting. That "myself" etc was more widely used in Jane Austen's day (both by her and many other educated writers) precisely to remove the potentially "selfish" element of "me". The link to the article by the Professor of Linguistics notes also that a very clever device it was too, as the word stress on "myself" falls on the second syllable, further distancing the "me" (in this case "my") part of the word and probably because of being used in a time when "decorum" dictated that one didn't push oneself forward and make oneself the centre of attention. (Even if trying to nab a bloke with a bit of cash 😂)
Fascinating.

Why does 'myself' sound less selfish? To me it sounds more self focussed than a simple 'me':

a. It is actually using 'self' (as in 'selfish' and 'self focussed')

b. It is taking about 'me' twice - 'my' and 'self' ie. Double the emphasis.

Weird

People who try to turn ‘I’ into a possessive.

”Please find attached the manager’s and I’s meeting minutes”.

It should be “Please find attached the meeting minutes from the manager and me”.

I had a colleague who would do it, another colleague would whisper, "How council house" at me when he did

You and your colleague sound utterly horrible.

PAFMO· Today 10:14

^Fenella123 · Today 10:09
"...to my wife and to me" would have worked...
I know myself is wrong, but! I actually understand the reluctance to use the word "me" as it introduces a sprinkling of "me me me" to the speech, which is the opposite of the desired impression^.

Yes, that's one of the reasons observed in one of the links I found above, which is interesting. That "myself" etc was more widely used in Jane Austen's day (both by her and many other educated writers) precisely to remove the potentially "selfish" element of "me". The link to the article by the Professor of Linguistics notes also that a very clever device it was too, as the word stress on "myself" falls on the second syllable, further distancing the "me" (in this case "my") part of the word and probably because of being used in a time when "decorum" dictated that one didn't push oneself forward and make oneself the centre of attention. (Even if trying to nab a bloke with a bit of cash😂)*

Fascinating.

It is fascinating. I read that article you posted PAFMO with that Jane Austen quote, and the explanation.

….used in a time when “decorum” dictated that one did not push oneself forward and make oneself the centre of attention.

Re: not letting oneself be the centre of attention, it is good you were able to write ‘dictated that one did not push oneself forward’.

It is so difficult to get ‘I’ and ‘me’ out of writing.

I am a grammar pedant, and I understand the use of 'myself' as a reflexive pronoun.

However, it is perfectly legitimate to also use it to add emphasis, to make a note where something is unusual or different, or alongside the noun to which it refers (also for emphasis).

Examples:
I am sure the door was locked - I locked it *myself
*
We talked to the teacher himself about the situation.

Whether or not Charles needed to do it in his speech is arguable. It does soften the tone & delivery, and I don't consider it a grammatical error in the way so many do here.

(The mention of William's 'by Catherine & I' is something I have noticed too & that's definitely grating).

Finally, I'm Irish, and in Hiberno-English, 'myself' is used liberally and frequently and is not considered incorrect, tho maybe more informal. 'Is it yourself?' [as a greeting on the phone or when you open the door]; 'Did you have a nice Christmas yourself?'; 'Great. Yourself?' as a response to 'how are you?'

The example of the insurance agent saying 'is it for yourself' is not only common here, it's considered more polite, than saying 'is it for you'. Just less direct & harsh.

While I think good grammar is important, so is using language responsively & contextually, and it means, that even with grammar, sometimes rigidity is incorrect.

Sorry, that wasn’t very clear but using the third person, ‘one’, which is so old fashioned now, was useful in getting rid of the personal emphasis.

However, it is perfectly legitimate to also use it to add emphasis, to make a note where something is unusual or different, or alongside the noun to which it refers (also for emphasis).

Examples:

I am sure the door was locked - I locked it myself

We talked to the teacher himself about the situation.

Whether or not Charles needed to do it in his speech is arguable. It does soften the tone & delivery, and I don't consider it a grammatical error in the way so many do here.

But Charles wasn’t using it in the way you give examples of here - to add emphasis, perfectly correctly - he simply used it incorrectly

I find the argument about ‘myself’ and ‘yourself’ softening the tone and delivery really strange - to my ear, it grates really harshly when people use it in this way.

I find the argument about ‘myself’ and ‘yourself’ softening the tone and delivery really strange - to my ear, it grates really harshly when people use it in this way

I'm afraid that anyone using it in the way the poster above gave - 'is it for yourself?' has me rolling my eyes a bit, and it grates because to me, it's wrong. I don't need messages softening, thanks.

Here are some examples:

"I sent myself a bunch of flowers."
"Most people don't like writing letters, but I quite enjoy it myself."
"Did you ask you secretary to choose the card? No, I chose it myself."

Please read my post!

I didn't say this re Charles. I agreed he wasn't using it in this way 🤦🏻‍♀️

I was making the point in relation to the wider thread where posters were dogmatic there was only one 'right' way.

Regarding softening - well, it does where I am! However, I agree, that's far from where Charles is, and it would seem for most UK inhabitants, that it is grating. Interestingly, I have an English colleague who wouldn't use this or other typical Irish speech affectations, and I do often find her 'hard' or excessively direct in tone.

Grand.

But my point was that in Hiberno-English, it is used in this way. And it's correctly used, in that context.

No, Charles is not using Hiberno-English, as acknowledged, by my point was about rigidity.

To give another example that's grammatically wrong, and grates on me, but in that locality is used by almost everyone: in Border / Northern counties in Ireland, people will say 'I seen' or 'I done'.I hate hearing it!

It's not about a lack of education or awareness, it's just local usage.

So I get the grating when something sounds 'wrong' but language is more fluid & responsive than one set of rules.