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Original poster

Is this the correct use of 'myself '?

129 replies

Cracklingfire1 · 25/12/2022 19:06

Is the the correct use of myself? I always thought myself was just used as a reflexive but Charles used it in his speech below and I'm assuming this has been proof read and agreed so must be right, if so why is it right in this example?

"I am reminded of the deeply touching letters, cards and messages which so many of you have sent my wife and myself and I cannot thank you enough for the love and sympathy you have shown our whole family."

OP posts:
motleymop · 26/12/2022 07:38

I think people (and, yes, it is often salespeople) say it to make themselves sound more learned.

picklemewalnuts · 26/12/2022 07:57

FormerlySpeckledyHen · 26/12/2022 07:29

I think he was just trying to be posh.

Grin
picklemewalnuts · 26/12/2022 08:00

@sashh I use Mrs, feeling very old fashioned as I do, because my Christian name is a tricky one. It saves a world of pain as I spell it to disbelieving receptionists.

upinaballoon · 26/12/2022 08:03

You think how you say it for each person separately and then put them together.

I received many messages. (I am the subject of the sentence.)
My wife received many messages. ( My wife is the subject of the sentence.)
Put them together.
My wife and I received many messages.

You sent messages to me. ( messages are the direct object here because they receive the sending, me is the indirect object here.)
You sent messages to my wife.
Put them together.
You sent messages to my wife and me.

That's how to work out when it's right to say 'my wife and I' or 'my wife and me'.
It isn't what anyone thinks it does or should sound like. It's grammar.

upinaballoon · 26/12/2022 08:10

I have heard Catherine, Princess of Wales say 'William and I' when it should have been 'William and me', but only once.

When Archie was born Prince Harry came on to the television to tell us. He started well - 'I am pleased/delighted to tell you/announce (fine so far, Harry) that Meghan and myself had a son this morning........(NO! Harry, Meghan had a son, I had a son, Meghan and I had a son.............

LemonDrizzles · 26/12/2022 08:19

I know the rule but i still use myself. Reason being, I feel I sound whiny when I say "me"' so how can I soften the sound of that? Easy "myself"'. I feel I sound too too casual when I say "me" so how can I sound more formal? Easy. "Myself"

"Myself" = grammatically incorrect

Also
"Myself" = a bit more poetic

Woeman · 26/12/2022 08:22

@LemonDrizzles

Really??? It makes stupid people look like they're trying to sound intelligent.

upinaballoon · 26/12/2022 08:22

I do not think that members of the Royal Family are the only people to get these kinds of thing wrong. Have you heard the grotty grammar of MPs and TV reporters?

I have written to the BBC, about 4 years ago, to suggest that they have a 5-minute English and Maths spot at 6p.m., just going over some basics. It's a brilliant idea. Some adults were ill/not listening/confused at the time these things were taught and to be reminded when you're an adult doesn't do any harm. Of course, you need teachers who understand the rules themselves, not the kind of teacher who says, "There's ten children off with Covid." (There are)

Buffypaws · 26/12/2022 08:23

I noticed this yesterday myself. I’m laughing to myself now there is a thread about it. I should have thought of starting one myself.

LovelyDaaling · 26/12/2022 08:24

Everyone seems afraid to say ME these days.

twinkleto · 26/12/2022 08:24

When is it correct to use "myself"

Does it mean "my own"?

I went there myself?

I have tried those myself?

Galarunner · 26/12/2022 08:27

It isn't what anyone thinks it does or should sound like. It's grammar.
I don't* *think language really works like that. It is a constantly changing and fluid thing. Who decides what is correct and is there a particular date after which no further changes happen?

upinaballoon · 26/12/2022 08:30

ScrollingLeaves · 25/12/2022 23:05

upinaballoon · Today 22:42
I would definitely have preferred that he had said 'me'. Thank you for the messages sent to my wife. Thank you for the messages sent to me. Therefore thank you for the messages sent to my wife and me.
Generally I expect to hear good grammar from Charles.
I have to say that Miss Jane Austen quite often used the word 'myself' in places where I would say 'me'

Please would you show some examples of Jane Austen using ‘myself’?

It would be interesting to see them and to try to think if she had a reason such as a portrayal of a character, or wanting to suggest some emphasis, for example, “I myself should have preferred water.“

I am sure you would have ruled out those reasons out but I’d like to see what you meant.

@ScrollingLeaves , I am not trying to duck your question, but 6 novels on Boxing Day Morning are a bit of a stretch. Even if it takes a year, I will try to find an example. It could be in reported speech.
Having spent some years snorting about 'I' and 'me' I found myself confounded by JA. Ah, well.
Without deliberately meaning to, I have just used the word'myself' in what I consider to be a correct way.🙂

pigsducksandchickens · 26/12/2022 08:35

I too picked that up the moment he said it!

Cringe.

Lovetotravel123 · 26/12/2022 08:38

Thank you for noticing this. This drives me crazy!

MerryMarigold · 26/12/2022 08:42

For those confused about me, myself and I ... Just simplify the sentence (ie. take out extra people, adjectives and explanations), replace with the others and see what sounds right.

The cards sent to myself/ the cards sent to me/ the cards sent to I. If me and myself sound right to you, then it's going to 'me' as it's a lot more common.

I went by me/ I went by I/ I went by myself. That's going to be myself.

My wife and I are going/ My wife and me are going/ my wife and myself are going. If 'I' and 'myself' both sound right to you then it'll be 'I' as it's much more common. If they all sound right to you then take out 'my wife' so it'll be 'i am going/ me is going/ myself is going'. Now what sounds right?

TheOnlyBeeInYourBonnet · 26/12/2022 08:44

Austin Powers said it best:

'Allow myself to introduce myself.'

It's a weird, faux posh/educated thing which is rife on here.

BigButtons · 26/12/2022 08:45

Everyone hates just saying me. I think they think myself sounds posh or something but it’s wrong though. He should have used me. Really annoys me.

Ogwen · 26/12/2022 09:04

twinkleto · 26/12/2022 08:24

When is it correct to use "myself"

Does it mean "my own"?

I went there myself?

I have tried those myself?

@TinfoilTwat explained it well unthread:

  • Myself / yourself / himself / themselves etc etc are all reflexive. You use them when the subject and object of the sentence is the same person or thing.

I love you.
I love myself.
You love me.
You love him.
You love yourself.
He loves himself.*

Whataplanker · 26/12/2022 09:21

I always remember the me/I rule by replacing it with us/we. So, if you were going to say " We are going to the shop" you would use "My husband and I are going to the shop".
If you were going to say "They sent cards to us" you would say "They sent cards to my husband and me".

As for myself... least said the better really.

PAFMO · 26/12/2022 09:32

Galarunner · 26/12/2022 08:27

It isn't what anyone thinks it does or should sound like. It's grammar.
I don't* *think language really works like that. It is a constantly changing and fluid thing. Who decides what is correct and is there a particular date after which no further changes happen?

Descriptive linguistics and Corpus linguistics observe and note shifts in usage. After many many years/generations, some things become acceptable.

Here's a couple of links to linguistics blogs which both explore descriptivism wrt "myself" rather than prescriptivism which tends to be a non- linguistic "no grey areas" thing.

www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2006/08/myself.html

sillylinguistics.com/me-myself-and-i-an-exploration-of-a-weird-phenomenon-in-modern-english/

ScrollingLeaves · 26/12/2022 09:33

upinaballoon · Today 08:30

@ScrollingLeaves , I am not trying to duck your question, but 6 novels on Boxing Day Morning are a bit of a stretch. Even if it takes a year, I will try to find an example. It could be in reported speech.
Having spent some years snorting about 'I' and 'me' I found myself confounded by JA. Ah, well.
Without deliberately meaning to, I have just used the word'myself' in what I consider to be a correct way.🙂

Of course. upinaballoon. What you said before about Jane Austen is tantalising though and I may go back to read some of her books again myself.

PAFMO · 26/12/2022 09:37

ScrollingLeaves · 26/12/2022 09:33

upinaballoon · Today 08:30

@ScrollingLeaves , I am not trying to duck your question, but 6 novels on Boxing Day Morning are a bit of a stretch. Even if it takes a year, I will try to find an example. It could be in reported speech.
Having spent some years snorting about 'I' and 'me' I found myself confounded by JA. Ah, well.
Without deliberately meaning to, I have just used the word'myself' in what I consider to be a correct way.🙂

Of course. upinaballoon. What you said before about Jane Austen is tantalising though and I may go back to read some of her books again myself.

My last link contains examples of JA using "myself" and the explanation of why it would have been chosen.
It seems it was used widely as a stylistic device when she was writing, then fell out of fashion in the following century.

Wigeon · 26/12/2022 09:42

I think one of the surprising things about this thread is the assumption the King writes his own speech and then someone proof-reads it. I would be fairly sure that his speechwriter writes it, probably based on a discussion with him and other advisers about what the content could be, and he then checks through the finished speech and makes any minor amendments.

He will have at least one, maybe more, speechwriters as part of his office team, in the Communications section.

I am guessing that the use of “myself” here was one of his amendments, as a professional speechwriter will have excellent skills in writing correct English…