Incident in Solihull

[YoSofi]

Comments on news reports are saying that five children/young teens have gone through ice into a lake and are in a critical condition.

Really hope that all involved make a full recovery

That's a very good point, to help explain the reasons and 'Physics' for doing so.

''Point load'' on ice {Someone standing on it} is far more likely to cause ice to break than the same weight spread over a much greater surface area {Ladder}

The same type of imagery was used in comics of the era for a Quicksand or Bog, where planks were used to spread the weight of a rescuer.

I’ve got a year 10 tutor group and the head asked us to talk to the kids about the dangers of going on icy lakes etc during form time. A member of the public called school to say that they’d seen pupils going into an icy pond in a nearby park. Most of them had absolutely no idea how dangerous it can be. I was going on like a mad women trying to get the message home. A few thought I was overreacting at first but hopefully the message has got through. They think they’re immortal, it’s just terrifying. I think the public information videos and adverts did a really good job of making people aware of dangers. The one where the teenager in a backseat wasn’t wearing a seatbelt and killed their parent during a car crash is particularly memorable.

@Namechangedforthisonetoday that's a great idea, I do think schools should have a responsibility, as part of the curriculum to do some educating about certain types of danger. I know it's a parental responsibility but having a school backup and reminder could make the difference to some lives lost each year. I'm not sure if this is part of the curriculum or not at the moment. Anyone know? I think my school had a fire thing recently, not aware of other ones though.

The shift in the parents being responsible to young people learning to take responsibility for themselves is what growing up is. Children need to be aware of good and poor choices. It's doing them a disservice to not teach them that.

Yes, I'm old enough to have seen them first time round. They made a big impression on me. I didn't take away the message that anyone was stupid or whatever - I took away the message that no way was I going anywhere the railway line or climbing a pylon to retrieve a kite or getting in a stranger's car.

As a pp has said, obviously they would need bringing into the 21st century, but the basic idea of showing the danger of activities - and instilling a healthy fear - is an effective one.

Children do indeed feel they are ''Immortal''.
The Public information films were played quite a lot in the school holidays, but I think some were played on ''Programmes for schools'' TV.

Good for you to help educate children about the dangers of ice and freezing water.

There were some posters put up near dangerous water courses in Bristol when we visited, Students had fallen in when intoxicated.

It’s at times like this it shows how hard our emergency services work, the dedication and care they show. All too often on here the police are criticised and almost seen as the enemy. But the vast vast majority of the police are amazing, they put themselves in danger every day, they receive so much disrespect,people filming them whilst they’re trying to do their job. Yet, it’s them who have to deal with so much that the rest of us just like to pretend doesn’t happen

That poor brave officer trying to break through the ice to get to those kids. He will get support from the force but that will affect him for the rest of his life.

And we shouldn’t forget the many officers who do all this on top of their day jobs and without getting paid.

This. ^ It IS worse when something happens so close to Christmas, because your enjoyment of Christmas is tainted for years to come. I know several people who have lost loved ones at Christmas, including my own DH who lost his mother Christmas Eve. It was 5 or 6 years before he started to enjoy Christmas again. Of COURSE it's horrible to lose a loved one at ANY time of the year, but it's somewhat amplified for many when it's Christmas.

Yes - this.

Most children have a huge sense of adventure, and never think that anything bad will happen to them.

When caught up in exciting or imaginative play in particular, they do not see the danger in front of them.

The public information films were very good but I seem to recall objections because one was too frightening, one about drunk driving, and it was withdrawn to stop upsetting people. Putting the fear of God into children is fine by me if it prevents other families enduring this tragedy.

People wanting the age of the PIF back - how do we then account for the fact that these sorts of incidents are horrifying but far more unusual than once?

Doesn’t it rather show that you can educate a child until your voice has gone but actually what children need until a certain age is supervision?

(That is in no way apportioning blame for this particular tragedy, it is a general point.)

Schools will be only too happy to help with conveying these messages but please understand that if we don’t currently it is because we have a huge amount of curriculum content and cannot be the nation’s extra parent when it comes to safety education.

Please can we also spare a thought for the staff of the boys’ schools. There is no support or training in place for these situations. Staff will open tomorrow to provide a safe space and some pre-Christmas normality for shell-shocked, grieving children whilst also processing their own grief. They are in for a tough few days and they will do everything they can to come together as a community.

Its served to remind me to have a little chat with (9) DS about the dangers of ice, and how boys in a group get silly.

I don't think anyone is saying supervision is a bad thing - but there comes a point when children have to be independent and if any avoidable tragedy, however rare, can be prevented, surely it's worthwhile?

One of these posters regularly ‘contributes’ to other threads by deliberately going against the grain in an unpleasant way, and has recently stuck up for the indefensible on here. I will not elaborate on that as it will detract from the thread. All I will say is, exercise caution when responding to some of these posters, unfortunately they appear to ‘get something’ out of it.

I've noticed a couple of these, too @Namechangedforthisonetoday .

Deliberately goady.

I try not to feed them, but sometimes they are so unfair/unkind that I feel I have to respond. It upsets me that their nasty comments may upset someone else - someone who is vulnerable because of their life circumstances.

I completely agree thanks. Schools are under so much pressure at the moment to fit everything in. I unfortunately have experience of this as a child at my DC school tragically passed away. How the staff continued in the days and weeks after is just beyond me. They were just incredible at supporting the children whilst no doubt being in absolute turmoil at the same time. My heart goes out to the staff at the school these boys attended. They have a tough road ahead.

In mid 90s China in railway stations, I saw displays of ACTUAL (v v graphic) photos of victims who had tried crossing railway lines and failed.
None of this public information programmes with re-enactments!

Hear, hear!

This dreadful incident will stay with the officer forever. Next to families, would-be rescuers are deeply affected.

Doesn’t it rather show that you can educate a child until your voice has gone but actually what children need until a certain age is supervision?

I think what it comes down to is that it's not enough to educate them, you actually have to frighten them.
Fairy tales are horrific for the same reason. You scare them into keeping themselves safe.

We are probably saying similar things really @PlaitBilledDuckyPuss

I do agree independence is good but I suppose for me it is the age a child is expected to be responsible and make smart decisions. To me, expecting a child under the age of about nine to make smart decisions about safety is wrong - a bit like expecting my toddler not to smash a Christmas ornament I left within his reach (yep, we all have lapses in judgement!)

It is quite timely as I was recently searching for one of these videos on YouTube as a stimulus for one of my classes and I am not even sure which one but the comments underneath were directly blaming the children. Someone posted something about one of their classmates had gone playing on the railway lines and died and the comments were along the lines of ‘stupid’ - and one here was too although I know it was deleted

I am honestly all for safety, I just think the way we explore it has to be done sensitively.

But that’s the point really @JackTorrance - if the PIFs were so effective, why did we still need them?

If you go through the stats, nearly every type of accident imaginable was more frequent in the 80s and 90s, tailing off into the 2000s. Why is that, it PIFs were so effective in getting their message across?

I heard that only one put a knee through, and the rest went to try and help. I don't know if it's true, but it's exactly not just what my kids would have done, but also what I would do. How could anyone just watch?

Perhaps the films should be targeted at older children - young teens, say, who are more likely to be out and about unsupervised. That's not to say younger ones shouldn't see them too because there are pre-teens who are allowed to roam unsupervised or with ineffective supervision, even if in 2022 most parents wouldn't let them.

These sorts of incidents are more unusual than 50 years ago for multiple reasons...

-far more rigours health and safety legislation

-huge technological advances which mean children are in their bedrooms on gadgets and far less likely to be outside

-mobile phones meaning parents can keep in touch/ track location of their kids

... just to name a few off the top of my head.

*rigorous