Incident in Solihull

[YoSofi]

Comments on news reports are saying that five children/young teens have gone through ice into a lake and are in a critical condition.

Really hope that all involved make a full recovery

Those films were incredibly effective. I can remember the trainline one where the boy got his leg stuck and the sparkler one. They were very very serious events, someone came to school with a big projector and gave the whole junior school a big talk on it.

Honestly I'm all for that sort of intervention if it saves a child's life.

Yes, it is horrific. Huge sympathies for everyone involved in the rescue and resuscitation efforts. It never leaves you.

I feel these films empowered children with adult knowledge. They said: Look, we aren’t going to coddle you. If you walk on a train-track, play near electric pylons, swim where you shouldn’t or play with fire, you or someone else will get hurt or die. You are mortal. We trust that you can handle this knowledge.

Someone on my hometown Facebook group reported that she’d seen some boys on the loch. I did point out she’s have been better talking to the boys first then Facebook second.

Lucy, what I am saying is that now we (mostly) see children as in need of protection.

Then, we did not. They had choices (okay on the railway line, or not) and if they were stupid and if they didn’t do as they were told (ignoring the fact that many did as they were told and still were harmed) more fool them.

And yes, since these attitudes were mostly towards working class children, it did stretch to sexual abuse (remember the ‘there are two types of 13’ comment?)

I have no issue with videos relating to safety being shown and I have no problem with these being hard hitting if needs be. I do have a problem with the underlying message being that dead children are dead because of a personal character flaw.

Play, not okay.

oh for an edit button.

@FetlocksBlowingInTheWind
And this is what some of the Public info films did do... They did help children realise what they ought to do {No mobiles in those far off days to call for help}

They empowered children to make the correct decision.

To be responsible.
Farms and old farmyards were especially dangerous, hidden wells &c.

I completely agree. The people posting about ‘grief vultures’ ‘gossip’ etc are just bizarre to me. It is a completely natural human reaction to be shocked and upset and want to talk about something like this with other people.
Children have died. This is not the natural order of things. Human nature and our human instinct to try to rationalise and attempt to make sense of tragedies like this, and part of that is communicating with others. I have seen no ‘grief vultures’ on here. I have only seen largely the best of this community, showing empathy for these poor families and sharing advice about what to do should heaven forbid, this sort of tragedy were to strike again. I have also learned a lot from this thread and I’m sure others have to. Those that come onto a thread like this and post nasty, insensitive comments to get a reaction should take a good hard look at themselves. One of these posters regularly ‘contributes’ to other threads by deliberately going against the grain in an unpleasant way, and has recently stuck up for the indefensible on here. I will not elaborate on that as it will detract from the thread. All I will say is, exercise caution when responding to some of these posters, unfortunately they appear to ‘get something’ out of it.

Absolutely this.

Absolute tragedy. Thought are with the families, friends and all involved in the rescue efforts. Praying the wee one pulls through.

Well, ultimately if you're going to have public information films which are effective, there's really no way around demonstrating that some decisions are good and some are poor.

Children need protecting, but surely part of that protection is arming them with the knowledge of dangers, and teaching them how to respond in certain situations?

I’ve just walked out of the room to put the kettle on and in that time my almost 5 year old Dd has tied a dressing gown cord around her 1 year old brothers neck to walk him around like a puppy. Despite countless talks about never putting anything around anyones neck. Yes she’s got a good telling off. Yes I’ve drilled in the dangers. But obviously not enough. With kids I don’t think it’s ever enough.
So sorry for the families and for those poor young boys and the emergency services. I doubt the police officer with hyperthermia or anyone who attended the scene is sat blaming the parents or name calling the children.

Just looking at the maps shown on the news - that’s a lot of housing built close to a massive lake, most likely intended as family housing. One video on social media showed someone filming from a bedroom window. If that’s how close the lake is, it’s not like the kids were playing miles from home.

i've popped an annual winter reminder in my calendar to chat to my DC about this to remind them of the dangers. Although some might think threads like this are in poor taste, I do find them a useful trigger to get me to think more about how I can educate my DC or at least warn them.

@oakleaffy and @electricmoccasins

Absolutely right, could not agree more.

From 50 years ago I can clear as day see in my minds eye an illustration of a man rescuing a child from the ice by climbing along a long ladder he had laid out on the ice. It was explained that this helped spread his weight and made it safer.
I think it was really important that the reason for not walking on the ice is explained (physics) rather than just being told by adults it’s dangerous , don’t do it. That isn’t always enough. So tragic that teaching life skills was sidelined.

Well that's it...as @electricmoccasins put it, you have to show the dangers and make them feel trusted to handle the knowledge.

That's the one thought I'm trying to hold on to.

Myself, brothers and cousins all watched the PBI films in the 80s and were well aware of the dangers of playing on frozen ice. We were always sloping off somewhere we shouldn't be and none of the warnings stopped us playing on the pond behind my cousins house. He broke through but it was only a shallow depth so was able to walk out. We were lucky, kids are kids, they do stupid shit and parents can't watch them 24/7. For every accident like this they'll have been a hundred near misses where the kids and parents got lucky so no-one should judge any of them.

And that’s really it isn’t it - some people do feel that the films are justified because they save lives.

I think what has vastly improved safety for children has been shifting the focus back to adults, where (imo) it belongs. Not ‘what a silly child running around a farm’ but rather a view that permitting a young child to run around a farm unattended is not wise.

ghjklo That’s a really good idea. I’m going to speak to my DC school this week and enquire as to whether they get any ‘danger’ talks anymore. If not, I’m going to see if I can get an assembly arranged (small village school, parents pitch in regularly on things like this before someone tells me off!). I appreciate schools are very busy and under a lot of pressure but it may be worth an ask. Yes as parents we should absolutely be teaching these messages first and foremost, but from my own childhood memories, I remember these assemblies far more than I ever remember my mum warning me about something. Just an idea anyway x

Yes, very well put. Making a bad decision doesn't mean you are 'stupid'. You can go too far trying to protect children from real life. 'We can't tell children they might be killed or seriously injured by walking on the railway line in case they think we are saying they're stupid.' No.

I am so so sad about these boys. Poor families, utterly tragic. My thoughts and prayers are with all of them

The films are fifty years old. I don’t think anyone is advocating dusting off a reel-to-reel projector and showing them as they are in assembly tomorrow. However public information campaigns have become very unfashionable since 2010 and it’s clear that we have lost something.

I am local to the area and the absolute dickhead comments on some of the local FB pages are doing my head in.

People judging the parents for allowing the kids to be out on their own.

@PlaitBilledDuckyPuss , have you seen those PIFs?

From memory; there is the dark water one which does say something like ‘I lie in wait for silly children who <insert dangerous thing> I have no power over sensible children.’

Theres a Say No to Strangers one where a child goes off with a man and the voiceover says something about her being a silly girl who should have waited for her mum.

There are numerous firework ones where the underlying message is that the children were poorly behaved.

These aren’t featuring teens or preteens. Five year olds aren’t responsible for ‘poor decisions!’ I just feel it’s poor taste (the videos, not your personal view I mean.) I’m glad we’ve shifted away from blaming children and making parents take responsibility.